Would I be allowed a help to buy ISA?

colsten

MARTYM8` wrote: »

And will they bother to check if the property you owned or land you owned was outside the UK. Easy enough perhaps to check our land registry - but abroad?

EU nationals resident in the UK are eligible for the help to buy isa - how many of those may have owned property or land in their own country. Will HMRC bother to check these cases e.g. did they own a field in Brno or Poznan in 1987 for two weeks?

In reality it will be low on their list of priorities methinks.

Why not just say a house in the UK - so much easier and checkable!

How many people will have owned land/property abroad, then come to the UK and posed as a first time buyer to get £3,000 after four-and-a-half years? #realitycheck

But I am sure UKAR will have a lot of bite and can check whatever they like, with the mandate from the HMRC.

PawelK

MARTYM8` wrote: »

And will they bother to check if the property you owned or land you owned was outside the UK. Easy enough perhaps to check our land registry - but abroad?

EU nationals resident in the UK are eligible for the help to buy isa - how many of those may have owned property or land in their own country. Will HMRC bother to check these cases e.g. did they own a field in Brno or Poznan in 1987 for two weeks?

In reality it will be low on their list of priorities methinks.

Why not just say a house in the UK - so much easier and checkable!

The Nationwide terms refer to 'a residential property owner'.

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/support/support-articles/important-information/help-to-buy-ISA#ftb

If you owned a field and could set up a tent in it....

I am not a fan of your approach to the subject mister
I am studying towards professional qualifications and being almost there, I would dread to think of hiding something on the application, getting caught in the future and losing my professional status which I will get for life. Not to mention other fines, penalties or even criminal conviction.

It is not about assessing probability of being caught but setting the rules straight and clear so everyone can understand how to obey to them. In this case, government uses words that could be interpreted ambigiously.

MARTYM8`

colsten wrote: »

How many people will have owned land/property abroad, then come to the UK and posed as a first time buyer to get £3,000 after four-and-a-half years? #realitycheck

But I am sure UKAR will have a lot of bite and can check whatever they like, with the mandate from the HMRC.

Fine - but it may confuse some people who maybe owned a piece of land or a commercial property but have never owned a residential property.

Even the guidance uses the term 'residential property owner' - the small print defines this as being something more than that. Could a field be a place of residence?

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/support/support-articles/important-information/help-to-buy-ISA#ftb

MARTYM8`

PawelK wrote: »

I am not a fan of your approach to the subject mister
I am studying towards professional qualifications and being almost there, I would dread to think of hiding something on the application, getting caught in the future and losing my professional status which I will get for life. Not to mention other fines, penalties or even criminal conviction.

It is not about assessing probability of being caught but setting the rules straight and clear so everyone can understand how to obey to them. In this case, government uses words that could be interpreted ambigiously.

I totally accept your point. However there is scope for confusion.

The Government's guidance on the help to buy isa makes no mention of land ownership - just refers to people saving for their first home and first time buyers. As do the articles etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/413899/Help_to_Buy_ISA_Guidance.pdf


So someone mistakenly might think they are eligible, save for five years and then come to claim and get prosecuted because their uncle gave them a field in Riga in 1999 to graze their cows on. A field - not a home.

Although perhaps jail might well be a nicer place to live than most of the new build shoeboxes these FTBs will be buying. The sound proofing will probably be better and their cell will probably be made of better quality materials.:D

This scheme should have been so simple - yet look at all the endless threads on the isa page which I/colsten and others are doing our best to answer. People are so confused by the rules - due to bureaucratic stupidity!

PawelK

MARTYM8` wrote: »

I totally accept your point. However there is scope for confusion.

The Government's guidance on the help to buy isa makes no mention of land ownership - just refers to people saving for their first home and first time buyers. As do the articles etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/413899/Help_to_Buy_ISA_Guidance.pdf


So someone mistakenly might think they are eligible, save for five years and then come to claim and get prosecuted because their uncle gave them a field in Riga in 1999 to graze their cows on. A field - not a home.

Although perhaps jail might well be a nicer place to live than most of the new build shoeboxes these FTBs will be buying. The sound proofing will probably be better and their cell will probably be made of better quality materials.:D

This scheme should have been so simple - yet look at all the endless threads on the isa page which I/colsten and others are doing our best to answer. People are so confused by the rules - due to bureaucratic stupidity!

Yet, as you have followed my original thread after visiting three different banks today, each gave different opinion whether i can or cant open htb. As far as I can understand each banks different practices, surely this scheme should be set with the same strict standards across the banking industry but is not.

I might actually try tomorrow to go to halifax and ask them if i can open their 4% htb if I will close my existing cash isa and see what they say

As per the land, this is confusing seeing it on the declaration but looking at the terms you provided it is quite clear its nit about the land but a property so bricks and mortat!

Rich2808

PawelK wrote: »

Yet, as you have followed my original thread after visiting three different banks today, each gave different opinion whether i can or cant open htb. As far as I can understand each banks different practices, surely this scheme should be set with the same strict standards across the banking industry but is not.

I might actually try tomorrow to go to halifax and ask them if i can open their 4% htb if I will close my existing cash isa and see what they say

As per the land, this is confusing seeing it on the declaration but looking at the terms you provided it is quite clear its nit about the land but a property so bricks and mortat!

Yes - it's all very shambolic.

The government can't even agree consistently what is a first time buyer - for first time buyer shared ownership it includes people who used to own a home but cannot afford to buy one now. The other help to buy mortgage and help to by equity schemes permit anyone to use the scheme providing the home they buy is less than £600k in London. More generous and both actually cost the taxpayer far more in subsidies.

The help to buy isa has been sold by the government as for people buying their first home or first time buyers - as stated in their guide - and the legal term used is first time buyer or not having owned a residential property before in the terms used on provider websites. Yet the small print definition includes owning a share of land or commercial property (eg a field) - which is non residential and totally different. Why not say never owned land or property - not never been a residential property owner.

Maybe the Treasury should sack all the bureaucrats running these schemes and fund some bricklayer training schemes instead. Building homes is the answer to help first time buyers - not these endless gimmicks!

Eco_Miser

Rich2808 wrote: »

Yet the small print definition includes owning a share of land or commercial property (eg a field) - which is non residential and totally different.

Where is that small print definition please?

The declaration the buyer has to sign, link posted by colsten, says

I do not own, and never have owned any interest in land, whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere, which:
(B) comprises a building that is used or suitable for use as a dwelling, or is in the process of being constructed or adapted for such use;

so empty fields don't count unless they are about to have houses built on them.

PawelK

Rich2808 wrote: »

Yes - it's all very shambolic.

The government can't even agree consistently what is a first time buyer - for first time buyer shared ownership it includes people who used to own a home but cannot afford to buy one now. The other help to buy mortgage and help to by equity schemes permit anyone to use the scheme providing the home they buy is less than £600k in London. More generous and both actually cost the taxpayer far more in subsidies.

Help to buy mortgage is also a shamble because it is only for new developments (still havent found what the definition is, built within the last twelve months or what?). if I am single (and this sometimes even applies to couples) living in London, The cost of the cheapest 1 bed flat will be in a region of 300k. That will mean that after help from the gov and with my deposit, I still need to get around 180-225 mortgage which is possible if you earn at least 35-40k annually.

Rich2808

PawelK wrote: »

Help to buy mortgage is also a shamble because it is only for new developments (still havent found what the definition is, built within the last twelve months or what?). if I am single (and this sometimes even applies to couples) living in London, The cost of the cheapest 1 bed flat will be in a region of 300k. That will mean that after help from the gov and with my deposit, I still need to get around 180-225 mortgage which is possible if you earn at least 35-40k annually.

Good luck. Have you thought of Romford? You could buy a house there for not much more than £300k.

Seems from the standard today you will even be able to use the new 40 per cent interest free equity loan (currently 20 per cent) for shared ownership schemes too on new builds in London from April plus the help to buy isa. So you could use three different schemes which are about helping first time buyers which all use different definitions of what a supposed first time buyer is.

They even have a help to buy isa radio jingle now - heard it on LBC. It's awful!

Rich2808

Eco_Miser wrote: »

Where is that small print definition please?

The declaration the buyer has to sign, link posted by colsten, says so empty fields don't count unless they are about to have houses built on them.

The field might have had a storage shed which you could have slept in - in London once converted that is classed now as a pied de terre and sold for £300k.

Just saying it's open to interpretation as the land registry data may be wrong. My sister actually inherited two fields when her godfather died outside the UK where cows were grazed and there was a barn and milking hut - hence my interest. In bad weather the cows slept in the barn - so it was residential housing for cows.

She owns a home so sadly isn't eligible anyway for the HTB isa. She sold the fields to a neighbour soon after probate was granted.