PCN on private Retail Estate

smaddy54

26/11/15 Received a notice on my works van after parking at the Exeter Retail Park in Marsh Barton.
Arrived at about 1545 to buy a Box of Paper from Staples for work as a monthly order of Staples Paper had not turned up. It was congested and I parked out of the way with plenty of space around me, and some way from staples, where the drive through from McDonalds exits. I did not find the ticket myself it was discovered by our DTM the next Day. Apparently I had the out of marked bay box ticked. what is that. I had a Renault Van and they just about fit in a Car space...or Not if your about to try and extort money. It read ...Observed at 1455...
Time of Issue 1500, pretty Darn Quick...At the time I was buying 5 reams of paper ---with the receipt time of 1456.
I studied some of the threads about complaining to the store managers to get the ticket removed.
As of Mon 30th nov. I confront the manager of staples at the Exeter Retail Park, at first he was very apologetic, and explained that he had problems with his staff getting tickets.
So he rang the company UKCPS Ltd to cancel the ticket, after giving my registration of the van, he told them I was working for him. He was told that he would have to write an appeal letter himself, which he had never had to do before for his own staff.
Not happy with this, he rang head office for clarification on PCNs when customers were legitimately buying from the store. He was supprised to be warned off and told not to get involved, or their would be consequences for him, as Staples pay rent to the Landlord. He was left very angry that he couldn't sort this out for me.

So be aware things don't always go to plan.
I am now on Plan B
Pening my appeal letter hoping to persuade them that what ever extra space I took up its not
going to make me pay.
Just to say my wife is in her 1st year of remission from breast cancer, and it is not good for the soul to have people like this on the planet.

Will try and keep up with the threads as things progress.

catfunt

This lot are IPC, so no truly independent appeal avenues for you. Their appeal "service" is a kangaroo court. There are those who say it's worth a strong appeal to IAS, on the basis that they would not want a real judge to see their "decision", others say there is little point in an IAS appeal as it's a slam-dunk lose. Details in the NEWBIES thread.

Have you yourself complained to Staples head office yet? Try to find the name of the Chief Exec or senior directors and write to them.
Also worth finding out who the landowner (i.e. Staple's landlord) is and complain strongly to them too.

Castle

If it's a works van is the registered keeper a company?

System

If it's a works van, it is better to write and identify yourself so you get the Notice to Keeper and not your company. It's especially useful if you live 200 miles away from Leeds.

Also have a word with Exeter City Council as to who is the landlord as it may be them.

http://www.exeter.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=811

The_Slithy_Tove

catfunt wrote: »

Have you yourself complained to Staples head office yet? Try to find the name of the Chief Exec or senior directors and write to them.

And when you do, retell your story about how head office seems to care not about their customers, and that there are plenty of other office supply companies who you will be glad to give your substantial business to in the future.

The_Deep

Did the paperwork include v.a.t.? This company appears to have a problem with v.a.t. If, as they claim, this is contractual charge, it is a fee for parking, and thus vatable.?
Ask them for a vat invoice as you are v.a.t. . If they ignore your request, (which they probably will), say that yor accounts department will not pay until the have a VRN. \also, it is a useful stick with which to beat them if it ever gets to court.

More reading here
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5033796=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5195437

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5087925=

If you suspect tax evasion report it to the fraud hot line here

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5087925&highlight

Fruitcake

In your appeal, point out that the parking scumpany's operative failed to mitigate their alleged loss by not telling the driver they would get a ticket if they didn't park between the bay markings.


They admitted that they observed it therefore, and their operative is obliged to tell the driver.


This will never get to court.

smaddy54

I now you told me so, but like lemmings the cliff seems so inviting.
I have given the complete garb of failed attempt from the IAS, as I suspected citing Parking Eye v Beavis, as their get out clause.

The adjudicator made their decision on 15/02/2016 19:56:18.

The Operator has provided a copy of the signs at the site, which make it clear and driver parking outside of a marked bay agrees to pay the charge. The Operator has also provided photographic evidence to show the Appellant’s vehicle leaving parked outside of a bay. I am therefore satisfied the Operator has a prima facie case that the charge is lawful.

The Appellant claims that the Operator has not suffered loss, that the bays are not uniform in size and many are not of adequate size for larger vehicles, and there were insufficient number of signs.

Loss is not relevant. This is a contractually agreed term. The signs make it clear that by parking outside of a bay the driver is agreeing to pay. Once the driver has entered into an agreement to pay the Operator does not have to subsequently justify the charge by showing they have lost financially. Even if the claim were for breach of contract, the recent Supreme Court decision in the case of Beavis v Parking Eye made it clear that such charges are not penal; therefore loss is irrelevant.

The photographic evidence provided shows there was ample space for the van to park within the bay. If the Appellant was concerned by the size of the bay they had the choice to park elsewhere. They chose not to. The relevance of the signs is that the charge cannot be lawful if the Appellant did not have notice of the terms they were agreeing to. The provision of signs generally is not of concern. The question is whether the Appellant had sufficient notice. Given they were parked directly next to a sign, I am satisfied they had such notice. The appeal is dismissed.

If anyone can advise the next course of action, as some threads report that you can be clobbered with excessive extra charges from £150 to £200, depending on court judges.
Trying to make lite of fruitless job, at least the petition has passed the 10,000 .

pappa_golf

pity you wrote to them , had your company have backed you up , they could have raised an invoice for £100 for your details .


if this gets as far as court , the manager will have to be told to attend , as HE the MANAGER of the land gave you permission ,


sounds like staples/landowner is getting a backhander

Coupon-mad

As of Mon 30th nov. I confront the manager of staples at the Exeter Retail Park, at first he was very apologetic, and explained that he had problems with his staff getting tickets.
So he rang the company UKCPS Ltd to cancel the ticket, after giving my registration of the van, he told them I was working for him. He was told that he would have to write an appeal letter himself, which he had never had to do before for his own staff.
Not happy with this, he rang head office for clarification on PCNs when customers were legitimately buying from the store. He was supprised to be warned off and told not to get involved, or their would be consequences for him, as Staples pay rent to the Landlord. He was left very angry that he couldn't sort this out for me.

That's awful enough but now the IAS has compounded it. Quelle surprise!

You will get a gloating letter about the IAS 'win' from UKCPS pretending that it means you must pay.

IGNORE THAT unless it is a Letter before Claim in which case it needs a robust response.

You do not have to pay this but yep, worse case scenario is they might choose it for a rare small claim (but they might not). If they do then generally with UKCPS you might have to pay £150 altogether, if you lose in court. No CCJ, no effect on credit rating, nothing awful as long as you then paid if you lost.

Not a huge gamble really, not much more than it is now - and people do still win in court you know.

Half_way

Did the IAS appeal comply with the ADR regulations? no.
if you dont know what im on about google parking prankster+IAS+ADR

Do a bit of research, on how the IAS fails to comply, complain to the Chartered trading standards institute about the non compliance, and tell Staples head office what has happened, also tell them that unless they cancel the charge notice you will have no other option than to consider charging them £19 per hour or part thereof..
Staples need to be dragged into this as it is staples responsibility for taking on the PPC post on facebook where ever keep the message the same, cancel the ticket