buy to let -Out!

catoutthebag

Given the debates people have here about the best placement for lump dump investment, given Mr Osborne recent budget, is the mail finally in the coffin for new or existing (small scale) entrants into this exploitative and turbulent investment channel?

And small, steady passive tracking wins Everytime (and tax free).
*opens beer and watches markets do the work*

HappyMJ

catoutthebag wrote: »

Given the debates people have here about the best placement for lump dump investment, given Mr Osborne recent budget, is the mail finally in the coffin for new or existing (small scale) entrants into this exploitative and turbulent investment channel?

And small, steady passive tracking wins Everytime (and tax free).
*opens beer and watches markets do the work*

Not at all. Property is a long term investment over at least 10 years. 3% stamp duty upfront is only 0.3% per year which really in the big scheme of things isn't really that much at all.

It's not going to make much difference at all. If anything rents will increase as there will be less supply and more demand. This then translates into higher house prices putting off even more small scale investors restricting supply even further.

economic

this would only reduce supply of rental property which may drive rents higher. question is what will happen to property prices (and therefore yields). my feeling is in London prices have topped and will now start to come down. however its very tough to call. maybe the existing landlords decide they will hold onto their properties even at poor net yields (given the tax change in the coming year) as they think it will be difficult/costly to re-enter at a later date with the stamp duty.

buy and hold forever is not a good idea - even trackers. how do you know stocks and property wont enter into a 20 year bear market?

CLAPTON

economic wrote: »

this would only reduce supply of rental property which may drive rents higher. question is what will happen to property prices (and therefore yields). my feeling is in London prices have topped and will now start to come down. however its very tough to call. maybe the existing landlords decide they will hold onto their properties even at poor net yields (given the tax change in the coming year) as they think it will be difficult/costly to re-enter at a later date with the stamp duty.

buy and hold forever is not a good idea - even trackers. how do you know stocks and property wont enter into a 20 year bear market?

but when do you sell?
now?

economic

whenever you think its a good time to sell...

point is investing for the long term is usually a fools game.

there are cycles and there is always a time to buy and a time to sell.

if you think you cant time it well then diversified portfolio is best but don't expect stellar gains.

jimjames

If worldwide stocks are in a long term bear market then you probably will have other things to worry about. Totally disagree that long term investment is a fools game. Maybe tell warren buffett that.

I think the tax changes are good if it put off some who assume that property is an automatic use of any lump sum without any consideration of other options.

Difference is that btl generally benefits from gearing yet stock market investments are normally just bought with cash so don't get the same magnified return up or down.

JohnRo

economic wrote: »

point is investing for the long term is usually a fools game

Rubbish, the only reasonable chance of beating inflation adjusted returns elsewhere is by holding a balanced equity portfolio over the longer term.

economic

that's because over the last 50 years it has. but you don't know the same outperformance will continue over the next 50years.....

that said I do think equities are the best bet and more weight in US equities (and not hedging USD currency risk).

Pincher

catoutthebag wrote: »

is the mail finally in the coffin for new or existing (small scale) entrants into this exploitative and turbulent investment channel?

Too many people.


Let me run the country, and I will institute a class based society.


Obviously I will be Supreme Dictator class, sleeping on excellent orthopaedic sprung mattress beds.


Second from the bottom class get straw to lie on.


The criminal and lowest common people sleep on the floor.


But everyone will be housed.

_CC_

economic wrote: »

whenever you think its a good time to sell...

point is investing for the long term is usually a fools game.

there are cycles and there is always a time to buy and a time to sell.

if you think you cant time it well then diversified portfolio is best but don't expect stellar gains.

Complete rubbish.

Trying to time the market is a fools game.

Contributing regularly into cheap, broad based accumulative funds is the foolproof way of achieving good gains over the long term.

Name me a time frame in which a major index has produced a negative gain over a 10, 20 or 50 year timeframe, with dividends reinvested.

As for BTL, I would have avoided even before the budget and Autumn statement changes, personally. It's more akin to a business than a passive investment. Property across the country is at high ratios to local incomes so you're paying quite a premium at this time. It may prove to be a good investment like the past decade, but wouldn't be my choice.

ChiefGrasscutter

Look at the Dow Jones between 1929 to 1949