Backdating of Severe Disability Premium on ESA

missapril75

lexbubbles wrote: »

...since my carer informed the DLA people in order to end her claim, that this information had been passed on to ESA (either by the DLA folk or by the carer personally)

As stated DLA and CA are independent of ESA, JSA, I/S. Far too many people receive these benefits for the paying authorities to go around checking if any change might affect the other benefits, even if they had access to the systems that would identify the existence of the other benefits.

I realise I'm giving government departments way too much credit hoping they ever actually communicate information to each other).

Actually there are plenty of threads here that will say otherwise. Don't take this the wrong way, as I have something positive to say later :j but keep that sort of comment to yourself when dealing with benefits staff as it will guarantee you don't get the sympathetic response.

lexbubbles wrote: »

She said it was up to whoever was processing the backdate and that I may or may not get it. So if I get a sympathetic person, yes. If don't, no.

A bit more to it than that but it could turn out that way.

Now, here's the important bit.

When I moved house I didn't have to fill in any more forms or read any more information booklets, I just told them I moved and would be living alone.

When someone declares receipt of DLA at a rate that would give entitlement to CA, the benefits staff input the receipt of DLA onto the computer system.

Until the position regarding a carer is known, the system will force the issue of the enquiry that will identify whether SDP is payable.

At the beginning of the claim, or when DLA/CA was awarded this would have happened and your response would have identified that CA was in payment. They would then know SDP wasn't payable and they would have entered something on the system to override the initial enquiry.

Had CA not been in payment then they would have made a different input on the system and SDP would then have been included.

The computer system is programmed to allow it, make the enquiry or disallow it.

Clearly if you had reported the address change and said I don't have a carer anymore or so-and-so doesn't get CA anymore, they could have put SDP into payment.

But you are not to know all the ins and outs and nor are you reasonably expected to. You have reported your address change and indicated you are living alone.

Much depends on the distance involved in your move. For your carer to still be in a position to actively be your carer obviously they have to be in the vicinity.

As a result of your change in circumstances - your move - when processing the new information the DWP staff should have done what they did at the beginning and that is to input the information so a new enquiry was produced.

The indicator they placed on the system to prevent SDP being included has been left in place when there was information to suggest the possibility SDP was now due.

Had they done this properly, you'd have received the same enquiry as before, when the carer became known except that this time it would become known there was no carer and SDP would be due.

The request for backdating should address this issue specifically. Concentrate solely on the fact that they have a procedure to follow when there is the possibility of SDP and that your change of circumstances identified a change whereby SDP could have become payable. Had they followed that procedure, you'd have been allowed SDP from the right time.

If your carer was living with you and didn't move with you, or your move was of a distance that makes it clear that carer could no longer care, then that strengthens your case even more.

It's not incompetence that made this happen nor that you erred in not being specific. Work pressures will mean they have processed the change quickly. These things happen.

You, or a support worker, should write a request for backdating of the SDP to the date of the change, politely mentioning that you did report the information necessary for them to have initiated their procedure for identifying whether SDP is due and that "understandable work pressures probably caused this to be missed" leading you to miss out on money properly due to you.

It's 10 years since I was in DWP but I don't believe this aspect has changed. Every case I ever came across where this procedure fell down resulted in full back payment.

lexbubbles

missapril75 wrote: »

As stated DLA and CA are independent of ESA, JSA, I/S. Far too many people receive these benefits for the paying authorities to go around checking if any change might affect the other benefits, even if they had access to the systems that would identify the existence of the other benefits.

I suppose that is true, although I thought maybe it might be automatically 'flagged' or whatever (or that carer had contacted both depts... although after talking to her it seems she thought it'd be auto-flagged as well)

Actually there are plenty of threads here that will say otherwise. Don't take this the wrong way, as I have something positive to say later :j but keep that sort of comment to yourself when dealing with benefits staff as it will guarantee you don't get the sympathetic response.

I wasn't planning to say that to them :rotfl:

Clearly if you had reported the address change and said I don't have a carer anymore or so-and-so doesn't get CA anymore, they could have put SDP into payment.

But you are not to know all the ins and outs and nor are you reasonably expected to. You have reported your address change and indicated you are living alone.

Right. This is kind of my entire point. If my carer contacting the DWP hadn't flagged something, surely my reporting moving out and living alone would have.

Much depends on the distance involved in your move. For your carer to still be in a position to actively be your carer obviously they have to be in the vicinity.

As a result of your change in circumstances - your move - when processing the new information the DWP staff should have done what they did at the beginning and that is to input the information so a new enquiry was produced.

I relocated some 450 miles from London to Glasgow so she's definitely not in the vicinity :rotfl:

Had they done this properly, you'd have received the same enquiry as before, when the carer became known except that this time it would become known there was no carer and SDP would be due.

The request for backdating should address this issue specifically. Concentrate solely on the fact that they have a procedure to follow when there is the possibility of SDP and that your change of circumstances identified a change whereby SDP could have become payable. Had they followed that procedure, you'd have been allowed SDP from the right time.

Okay I was going to point out that to the best of my knowledge they knew about the lack of carer's (as pointed out several times, even if DWP didn't flag ESA, I thought that L had contacted both depts anyway). Should I then leave that out and just tell them that I told them I moved a really long way away and was living alone?

Also as mentioned I didn't do a form for this. I just told them over the phone. I actually tried to do it a few days before I moved (I was waiting on a reassessment decision and didn't want the letter to arrive at the wrong address so attempted to inform them of the date at which the address would change, but was told I had to wait until I'd already moved. Lo and behold, they sent out the decision letter the day before I moved and it went to the wrong house). As soon as I arrived in my new house, I phoned them to update the address and my single-occupancy status. But since I have no paperwork of this...?

If your carer was living with you and didn't move with you, or your move was of a distance that makes it clear that carer could no longer care, then that strengthens your case even more.

So I really need to focus on "well I did tell you I moved, and it was over 400 miles..."

It's not incompetence that made this happen nor that you erred in not being specific. Work pressures will mean they have processed the change quickly. These things happen.

You, or a support worker, should write a request for backdating of the SDP to the date of the change, politely mentioning that you did report the information necessary for them to have initiated their procedure for identifying whether SDP is due and that "understandable work pressures probably caused this to be missed" leading you to miss out on money properly due to you.

Okay I'll write something out. Would you mind if I ran a draft by you, as someone who used to work for the DWP?

It's 10 years since I was in DWP but I don't believe this aspect has changed. Every case I ever came across where this procedure fell down resulted in full back payment.

That's promising! I just hope that they don't just decide to only backdate it to April (tax year) or something. Not that that wouldn't be helpful, of course, but going by tax year would result in a loss of a year's backpay. Is that likely?

Thanks for all your helpful comments :heartpuls

missapril75

lexbubbles wrote: »

Also as mentioned I didn't do a form for this. I just told them over the phone. ... As soon as I arrived in my new house, I phoned them to update the address and my single-occupancy status. But since I have no paperwork of this...?

Don't worry about the lack of paperwork. One look at the computer screens will show them they've recorded something to override awarding the SDP and they should be able to see they had no reason to do so once your address change had been reported.

So I really need to focus on "well I did tell you I moved, and it was over 400 miles..."

Yes, with reference to your carer not having followed you.

Some carers are organised through agencies, so in theory there could have been a new carer but common sense - as well as official procedure - dictates the need for the enquiry.

Okay I'll write something out. Would you mind if I ran a draft by you, as someone who used to work for the DWP?

Sure. Maybe by PM?

That's promising! I just hope that they don't just decide to only backdate it to April (tax year) or something. Not that that wouldn't be helpful, of course, but going by tax year would result in a loss of a year's backpay. Is that likely?

Some compromise is always a possibility. They might decide that there was some event or review since you moved where it could have been picked up and do it from then.

It's also possible that someone decides that you managed without all that time and you don't "need it" but that would be wrong.

You might need to make a formal appeal if it feels like you're not getting anywhere.

speedfreek1000

missapril is correct in everything except......

don't use the term backdate!

Use the phrase 'paid from the date when I became eligible for it'

SDP is paid from the date you became eligible for it, either by qualifying for a new benefit or informing them of a change that has the same effect. If the DWP do not put it into payment then it's a failure by the DWP to investigate and thus maladministration.

The DWP use the term backdate in regards to - you inform them of something (a change or application for benefits) and you would like them to 'backdate' that decision by up to 3 months before you actually told them/applied for it.

Whilst in normal use 'backdate' has many meanings in DWP speak it's very specific and not what you're asking for.

lexbubbles

missapril75 wrote: »

Don't worry about the lack of paperwork. One look at the computer screens will show them they've recorded something to override awarding the SDP and they should be able to see they had no reason to do so once your address change had been reported.

I do hope that's the case.

Some carers are organised through agencies, so in theory there could have been a new carer but common sense - as well as official procedure - dictates the need for the enquiry.

I expect "common sense" is where this all fell down :rotfl: (I'm kidding... mostly)

Sure. Maybe by PM?

Thank you. My form just arrived and I've sent you a PM.

Some compromise is always a possibility. They might decide that there was some event or review since you moved where it could have been picked up and do it from then.

The only review I can think of (since I haven't been re-assessed) is the annual uprating in April. Should something have picked up then? (By them, I mean, since I wasn't aware of my entitlement to SDP at all until I went to the CAB.)

It's also possible that someone decides that you managed without all that time and you don't "need it" but that would be wrong.

Wrong as in against official procedure? Or wrong as in "morally pretty !!!!!!". (I could probably make a case that I haven't really 'coped' since prior to my move I had £0 in unsecured debt and now have £2,500ish and it has nothing to do with wild unnecessary spending but that's neither here nor there for the moment)

You might need to make a formal appeal if it feels like you're not getting anywhere.

I hope not. I'm already exhausted and I haven't even sent off the first form yet.

lexbubbles

speedfreek1000 wrote: »

missapril is correct in everything except......

don't use the term backdate!

Use the phrase 'paid from the date when I became eligible for it'

SDP is paid from the date you became eligible for it, either by qualifying for a new benefit or informing them of a change that has the same effect. If the DWP do not put it into payment then it's a failure by the DWP to investigate and thus maladministration.

The DWP use the term backdate in regards to - you inform them of something (a change or application for benefits) and you would like them to 'backdate' that decision by up to 3 months before you actually told them/applied for it.

Whilst in normal use 'backdate' has many meanings in DWP speak it's very specific and not what you're asking for.

Thank you, I'll be sure to use that term instead of saying backdate.

I think perhaps both of us are at fault here, given that I didn't personally expressly inform them that the CA wasn't in effect, but also they didn't investigate when I moved 450 miles to live by myself. One can only hope for a little leeway given.

nannytone_2

the severe disability premium always has to be applied for and isn't generally automatically awarded.

unless you ask to apply for it, they wont check on you to see if you are eligible'

they can backdate it if they decide you had good reason not to have claimed it earlier, but ignorance is never deemed good reason as the onus is always on the claimant to make sure they are claiming everything they are due

missapril75

lexbubbles wrote: »

The only review I can think of (since I haven't been re-assessed) is the annual uprating in April. Should something have picked up then?

No. Sometimes things just don't look right to very experienced staff members and they check. (blows own trumpet )

Wrong as in against official procedure? Or wrong as in "morally pretty !!!!!!".

Both.

PM answered

missapril75

nannytone wrote: »

the severe disability premium always has to be applied for and isn't generally automatically awarded.

unless you ask to apply for it, they wont check on you to see if you are eligible'

they can backdate it if they decide you had good reason not to have claimed it earlier, but ignorance is never deemed good reason as the onus is always on the claimant to make sure they are claiming everything they are due

What you are describing here is the rule as applied to a single benefit. The SDP is part of benefit and it's not quite the same thing.

You have family members working for DWP don't you? Do they do assessing? If so, they should know the procedure for what entries to make on the computer when DLA triggers possible SDP.

It cannot be ignored. They have to take some action in order to proceed with the data input.

They can limit back-payment where a change results in an increase and the change was not reported on time.

The change was reported in this case. An increase would have been the result had the proper procedure been followed.

nannytone_2

when i was awarded middle rate care DLA, i was sent information explaining the severe disability premium, along with details of how to apply.
i was already receiving income related ESA but still had to apply for the SDP.

if i hadn't asked them about it, then they wouldn't have offered