Master Socket - Who's Responsibility?

Border_Reiver2

Our phone went off last week, so we reported to TalkTalk contact centre. They told me to take off the front plate & plug the phone into the test socket. This worked, but then the internet wouldn't work. They then told me to go and buy a new front plate and fit it myself. I wasn't prepared to do this because our high speed broadband wires go directly into this front plate.
TalkTak sent out an engineer today & he said that the built-in filter had failed as they apparently often do. He disconnected the wires, removed that plate and fitted a new thinner one and plugged in a standard looking filter. If this master socket is our responsibility, it will cost us £60 (TalkTalk say it's ours), yet the Openreach guy who originally fitted 2 year sago it said that was their equipment.
It does have the Openreach logo on it.
Any thoughts on this in case I get a bill and have to argue about it?

Hasbeen

Border_Reiver2 wrote: »

Our phone went off last week, so we reported to TalkTalk contact centre. They told me to take off the front plate & plug the phone into the test socket. This worked, but then the internet wouldn't work. They then told me to go and buy a new front plate and fit it myself. I wasn't prepared to do this because our high speed broadband wires go directly into this front plate.
TalkTak sent out an engineer today & he said that the built-in filter had failed as they apparently often do. He disconnected the wires, removed that plate and fitted a new thinner one and plugged in a standard looking filter. If this master socket is our responsibility, it will cost us £60 (TalkTalk say it's ours), yet the Openreach guy who originally fitted 2 year sago it said that was their equipment.
It does have the Openreach logo on it.
Any thoughts on this in case I get a bill and have to argue about it?

Yes, its yours BT are only responsible for wires to your property, suggest buying new one on internet, easy connection, and get rid of dangly standard looking filter

brewerdave

...bit of a grey area - the connections to, and the base plate of the BT master are definitely their responsibility (unless damaged by the householder) - but a failure of the special front plate -not sure !!Suspect that you may have an argument on your hands !!!

Retrogamer

The front plate is your responsibility.

If you had popped an ADSL filter into the test socket (the one behind the faceplate) then internet and phone would still have worked normally

TalkTalk

HI Border,

The faceplate of the master socket is classed as internal wiring. If this is the cause of the issue and was resolved through an engineer visit it is likely that charges will be applicable. As Retrogamer advised connecting to the test socket with a filter would overcome the issue.

Cheers

Mark
Social Customer Care Team
TalkTalk

Border_Reiver2

Thanks for your reply Mark.
When the Openreach engineer installed the socket around 2 years ago, I specifically asked him who's responsibility it was and he said it was theirs (Openreach) and the customer shouldn't interfere with it.
It came in one packet and my understanding is that it requires both sections to work as an effective unit, therefore surely the whole unit must be the responsibility of Openreach..
Your contact centre operative did ask me to remove the front plate and connect the phone into the test socket. Had she advised me that all I needed to do was to plug in a filter then I could have done so in seconds and there would have been no need for an engineers visit.
Another point to consider is that the engineer sent to investigate this problem told me that the built-in filters in these units are prone to failure. The master socket was installed just over 2 years ago and I would suggest that it was not fit for purpose as previous master sockets lasted upwards of 10 years. Because your engineer didn't replace the front plate like for like, but replaced it with a different type, that seems to indicate that the original plate with the built-in filter is indeed not fit for purpose. I would imagine that if I were to fight this case in a court, with the information available, I would have a very good chance of winning this one.
TalkTalk and Openreach really need to get their act together and issue a definitive statement about ownership of cables and boxes. On a previous occasion a few years ago, your representative told me that the cable from the box outside the window to the master socket was my responsibility and again this was fixed by Openreach free of charge. So if your representative was lying to me then, how do I know what to believe now. I certainly know that when the Openreach engineer was here in our lounge, he was very definite that the whole master socket was theirs. I do intend to fight this all the way.

iniltous

A NTE5 type master socket does come in two parts, the lower removable section is the consumer panel, this is where you would connect any extension wiring, and is disconnected from the line when that section is removed...the none filtered NTE5 panel is nothing more than a male /female connector and has no electronics, and has basically nothing to go wrong,
filtered consumer panels do have electronics that obviously can fail, and although they are very reliable, they are obviously less reliable that an unfiltered panel.
The acid test if the line works ok in the test point with the consumer panel removed, regardless of who provided it or if it's filtered or not, you have proved no issue with what Openreach are responsible for, and to get them to attend is risking a charge for an unnecessary visit

Border_Reiver2

I will wait and see what happens.
As I said, if the person in the contact centre had given me advice on what needed doing, I could have dealt with it immediately, but then again that would have been against the advice the Openreach engineer. Over the years I have been told different things by both TalkTalk and Openreach and the only one I have any reason to believe is the Openreach engineer who replaced the cabling through the house wall free of charge when TalkTalk had assured me that it was my responsibility. At least Openreach engineers have consistently told me the same thing each time, which TalkTalk advisors have not.
TalkTalk say one thing (and this differs each time) and Openreach say another thing and until I see something in either writing or in diagram form in the terms and conditions of my contract then it seems as though it's just a matter of opinion, one company's view compared to another.
I've trawled through many forums and out of hundreds of posts, opinion is always divided.
It would be sensible for TalkTalk and Openreach to agree exactly who is responsible for what and do the decent thing and inform the customers by including it in the terms and conditions of the contract in a format that cannot be misinterpreted. In that way, customers like myself could see it in advance and say "yes, I understand my responsibilities".
As things stand (unless I've missed something), if a judge said to TalkTalk "show me where in the terms and conditions it says that the customer is responsible for the front plate", I think TalkTalk would be stuck for an answer.

Retrogamer

How many telephone sockets do you have in your house in total?

I worked with ADSL broadband tech for many years and helped other areas of the business.

The faceplate is the consumer's responsibility. The socket and all the wiring leading outside behind it is Openreach's responsibility.

You may still be charged for repairs up to and including the test socket if they became damaged or defective due to a fault of your own.

You were offered the chance to resolve the problem yourself by buying a new front plate. You could have either fitted it yourself very easily by following a youtube or web based tutorial or paid someone to do it.

It seems by your opening post that you declined that option. Being charged £60 by Talk Talk isn't too bad as it sounds like they're only passing a small proportion of the charges to you. Depending on what "modules" the engineer checked on the visit they may have been charged anything from £80 up to £400.

If you only had the faceplate for 2 years it sounds like you had broadband and were using it prior to the faceplate. If that's the case you should have known yourself from previous experience a filter would have got broadband working again.

Border_Reiver2

Retrogamer, you may well be correct in your interpretation of this, but there are those that disagree with you with equal certainty. If you could refer me to the documentation that you got your information from, I'll be happy to believe you.

AndyPK

Needs wiring moving over:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Telephone-DSL-ADSL-Broadband-Faceplate-Filter-4-BT-openreach-Master-Socket-Nte5-/261593798875?hash=item3ce83498db:g:-2kAAOSwk5FU0Qop




No wiring required (unless you have the type above currently) These do stick out quite a lot though

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BT-MK3-genuine-Openreach-vDSL-ADSL-NTE5-SSFP-Faceplate-Filter-Socket-/321918633060?hash=item4af3d88464:g:mhAAAOSw7NNUDLWS