I owe British Gas but First Utility owe me!

spiro

Tinkywinks108 wrote: »

I hadn't realised, thanks for this. Do they warn you before they backlist you?

BG are like most energy suppliers they report to the CRAs like the credit card companies do so every late or missdd payment is recorded, even once you have paid it off it will stil show as a late payment which impacts your credit score.

patanne

If you paid by direct debit then I would definitely speak to your bank as dogshome said. Even if they do eventually repay you it will probably be by cheque and that will take 5 days to clear. The refunded DD should be showing in your account quite quickly.

Tinkywinks108

dogshome wrote: »

There are many posts here regarding FU's tardy record when re-paying due moneys back to customers.

The money you paid was to settle bills from FU, that should never have been issued to you in the first place.
If you were paying FU by Direct Debit you can ask your bank to recall every payment made under the Direct Debit Guarantee Scheme, which will probably get the money back in your bank much faster than waiting for repayment from FU

Further to this issue, once I'd switched from FU to EON (a month ago) FU charged me via Direct Debit even though I was no longer with them, even for electricity. When I called them about this, FU themselves advised me to get a DD indemnity as it would be quicker than them issuing me a refund. So I claimed this through my bank and the first request was rejected! My bank tried a second time and managed to get it. So, if FU were reluctant to accept a DD indemnity request even when it was their idea, I doubt they will go ahead with another one. But I will try, thanks for that.

Tinkywinks108

patanne wrote: »

If you paid by direct debit then I would definitely speak to your bank as dogshome said. Even if they do eventually repay you it will probably be by cheque and that will take 5 days to clear. The refunded DD should be showing in your account quite quickly.

FU recently refused a DD indeminity that they themselves suggested I request. At this point the dispute between BG and themselves over who were supplying my gas was unresolved, however I had switched from FU to EON and they had charged me for an extra month. My bank managed to push it through a second time but I'm now wondering if they have the right to refuse a DD indemnity request.

naedanger

Tinkywinks108 wrote: »

FU recently refused a DD indeminity that they themselves suggested I request.

It is not up to FU to agree or refuse a payment under the DD guarantee. The point of the guarantee is to ensure a customer is immediately refunded even if the other party (here FU) don't agree when that party (FU) has taken money from your account it was not entitled to take under the DD arrangement e.g. because you never gave them authority to take it.

Direct Debit Guarantee

The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits
If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request
If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society
If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to
You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.
* The Guarantee covers Direct Debit payments. It cannot be used to address contractual disputes between you and the billing organisation.

(I must admit I am not 100% sure the DD really applies in your case. If you had agreed to the DD payments, albeit based on a misrepresentation by FU, I am not sure you can claim on the DD guarantee. However it is certainly worth a try.)

Tinkywinks108

naedanger wrote: »

It is not up to FU to agree or refuse a payment under the DD guarantee. The point of the guarantee is to ensure a customer is immediately refunded even if the other party (here FU) don't agree when that party (FU) has taken money from your account it was not entitled to take under the DD arrangement e.g. because you never gave them authority to take it.

Direct Debit Guarantee

The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits
If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request
If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society
If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to
You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.
* The Guarantee covers Direct Debit payments. It cannot be used to address contractual disputes between you and the billing organisation.

(I must admit I am not 100% sure the DD really applies in your case. If you had agreed to the DD payments, albeit based on a misrepresentation by FU, I am not sure you can claim on the DD guarantee. However it is certainly worth a try.)

Thanks. Well FU certainly challenged it that one time, my bank called me to get more details on why I was claiming and then was told by my bank, don't worry, we'll get on to it for you. So I'm not sure how that works exactly - maybe as you say, the DD cancellation policy doesn't apply in my case. But yes, I'll give it a go!

naedanger

Tinkywinks108 wrote: »

Thanks. Well FU certainly challenged it that one time, my bank called me to get more details on why I was claiming and then was told by my bank, don't worry, we'll get on to it for you. So I'm not sure how that works exactly - maybe as you say, the DD cancellation policy doesn't apply in my case. But yes, I'll give it a go!

The DD guarantee is operated by the bank, and they will decide (not FU) whether you have a valid claim under the guarantee. (The bank may speak to FU but ultimately it is the bank's decision, and if there is a dispute between you and the payee over the facts of the case then the bank is likely to take your side.)

By setting up a DD the payee (FU in your case) can in practice withdraw any amount they choose. For that reason there needs to be safeguards for the payer. In essence the safeguard is that the payee is only permitted to take amounts from your account that you have been notified of in advance (possibly by sending you a bill in advance of the withdrawal). (So if you disagree with the planned payment you could cancel the DD.) And if the payee takes anything without the proper notification you can have the money immediately refunded under the DD guarantee.

So if a payee took more money than they agreed you could immediately claim under the guarantee.

However my understanding is that if you agreed to the DD, and the payee only took amounts that had been properly notified to you under that DD mandate, then you could not claim under the guarantee even if you disputed other parts of the contract. So if you paid a payee but later thought the payee was at fault in some way you could not use the DD to reclaim any payments.

So I think the key question the bank will consider is whether there was a DD mandate in place, and did FU properly inform you in advance of the amounts they took under that mandate. If so, I think, the guarantee does not apply. However I might be wrong, or FU may be happy that the amounts are reclaimed, so it is certainly worth trying.

patanne

They did get the DD mandate by lying to you that they had taken over the supply, which they hadn't done.

naedanger

patanne wrote: »

They did get the DD mandate by lying to you that they had taken over the supply, which they hadn't done.

Indeed. But I don't think the DD guarantee provides any help if you agree to a DD mandate, even if that agreement was based on a misrepresentation or a downright lie.

If they lied about the amount they were going to take or the timing of any payment then the guarantee would apply. But if they lied about what they would provide for the payment then I don't think the guarantee will help.

If someone lies about a service and you pay by cash or cheque then you need to sue them. I think the position is similar with a DD. My understanding is that DD guarantee is essentially only protecting you against those risks that don't exist with a cheque or cash.

macman

As far as BG are concerned, your battle with FU is a third party dispute and no concern of theirs.