Electricity Bill: using less does NOT reduce bill

naedanger

FlatFour wrote: »

Hi,

Yes, we're doing that. Originally we had a meter reader come to the door every month, now we submit the readings online every month as requested. Really shudda mentioned that shouldn't I? Sorry!

Also have you thought of going on quarterly billing where you pay each quarter for what you actually used that quarter? It means each quarter your bill will be different (more in winter, less in summer) but if you submit actual readings it avoids the problems of over or under paying on a budget plan.

Also it is much easier to understand how your payment has been calculated (as it is just the number of days times the daily service charge plus the number of units times the kWh charge, although the gas bill has a little more to it).

Shrimply

I don't understand.

Everybody on a particular tariff, pays the same standing charge, no matter how much energy they use. How does that amount to a low usage fine? And the standing charge never changes during a fix.

The Cheap energy club, and other comparison sites takes the standing charge into account. So the one they say is cheapest for you will be.

You need to talk to your provider about meter readings and sensible estimates, but I just can't get my head around anything you say about standing charges or "low usage fines".

gt94sss2

FlatFour wrote: »

We've been doing some more research today, and it seems that whoever we go with we'll be fined for not using enough. Makes a bit of a mockery of everything (trying to be frugal, environmental impact of excessive power usage etc) if despite cutting back on power usage, we still pay the same as if we were more extravagant power users.

You need to do a bit more research.

You will find Eon offer you a cheaper tariff via https://allofustogether.ichoosr.com/Product/index.rails?actionId=425 rather then going direct via their website.

Otherwise there are suppliers/tariffs who do not charge a standing charge. Try using the comparison engines inputting your actual usage - the results take account of the standing charges when producing their results.

Regards
Sunil

FlatFour

Shrimply wrote: »

I don't understand.

Everybody on a particular tariff, pays the same standing charge, no matter how much energy they use. How does that amount to a low usage fine? And the standing charge never changes during a fix.

The Cheap energy club, and other comparison sites takes the standing charge into account. So the one they say is cheapest for you will be.

You need to talk to your provider about meter readings and sensible estimates, but I just can't get my head around anything you say about standing charges or "low usage fines".

Hi,

The fact that our Standing Charge increased after we'd accepted a lower per-unit deal is something that happened, and I was worried it'd happen again. Being told you'll save money switching, then finding a charge had increased isn't so good. Still, that was a while ago (I was a bit sore about it) seems that it's not a thing any more, which is great.

I'll have to call EON tomorrow and chat to someone I think, the discrepancy between what we use and what we're estimated to have used each month is silly. Consider that when suggesting a future tariff for us, they took the estimated usage into account, rather than actual amount used...well, I simply don't understand why they've never seemed to use either the meter reading taken by the chap who used to call by every month, nor the reading submitted online. I do wonder if, due to some error on their web site for example, they were not getting the information? They do periodically ask for a meter reading at random, so possibly other reading are being lost somehow.

I'll check with them directly, hopefully I can sort out the confusion.

Thanks for the quarterly suggestion, I might enquire about that. We were on a quarterly scheme once before, but had problems with estimate readings even then, as well as being put on entirely the wrong tariff for an extended period due to being told we couldn't switch from Economy 7 - we don't use anything Economy 7 *sigh*

redux

All companies tariffs are published on their own and comparison sites, and they can't increase the standing order charge on a whim.

If something sometimes come out higher than you hoped, make sure you put your actual use in the comparison site rather than a guess.

I'd hesitate to adopt the quarterly tariff though, as some of these are slightly more expensive than monthly versions.

victor2

FlatFour wrote: »

Thanks for the quarterly suggestion, I might enquire about that. We were on a quarterly scheme once before, but had problems with estimate readings even then, as well as being put on entirely the wrong tariff for an extended period due to being told we couldn't switch from Economy 7 - we don't use anything Economy 7 *sigh*

You can switch from an economy 7 tariff to a single rate one. Many suppliers (including E.On) will do this without you needing a meter change, they just add the "day" and "night" readings together to get a single usage figure.
Put your total annual kWh usage into a comparison site and see what it suggests. The figures these sites provide include the standing charge cost. Ignore any suggested "savings" they say you'll make, as they are generally unrealistic. Just compare the predicted annual cost with what you are currently paying.
If you're thinking of moving supplier, you will have to check with the one you could be going to if they will accept a single rate tariff on an economy 7 meter.
It's all doable, without any "fines" for using less.

molerat

It seems the OP accepted a new tariff with a lower unit rate without looking at the standing charge which was higher than the old tariff. I would also suggest that the OP does not understand how energy tariffs work and has been seduced by the headline unit rate rather than investigating actual annual costs as can be seen by the term "low use fine" Using less will cost you less. Using less Fortnum & Mason's baked beans will not neccessarily be cheaper than using more Tesco baked beans ! They also mention "we do a comparison based on a £100 PCM charge" which will never work, accurate annual kWh use is the only way to compare energy costs. Nowhere in their posts do they mention actual kWh use, unit costs, sc costs or actual payments.

Using one of the comparison sites, I suggest EnergyHelpline being the easiest to understand, would maybe help them understand better.

macman

Basics. OP, what is your annual kWh usage on each fuel, and on each E7 register? I don't understand your comments about switching from E7-this is done quite simply but may require a meter change. But if this is an all electric house then E7 is by far the cheapest option, so how is the property heated and hot watered? If you do that on a single rate tariff then your bills will increase by around 250%.
Standing charges and unit kWh rates are a red herring because of all the other variables, all you need is your annual kWh usage and your postcode to find the best tariff. Any comp site will do this for you in seconds.

[Deleted User]

I am always suspicious with meters on Eco 7 especially when they have a gas central heating system installed.Its very common for suppliers, meter readers and customers to mix up the day and night reads so the readings are transposed. Also the timerswitch which controls the meter switch over times are also suspect

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

FlatFour wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Sorry, I'm likely not being as clear as I should. This Standing Charge figure has always seems to be the counter-balance to the per-unit charge over the years. I.e. I find a cheaper per-unit tariff option, yet when I get into it I see that the Standing Charge is higher, either totally negating any potential savings - due to us being fairly low-usage - or even working out more expensive. I'm noticing this is very evident across providers when using the MSE comparison tool, negating cost per unit reductions.

We did have regular meter readings, and have frequently queried why we get constantly over-estimated on our usage. When I queried this, the explanation has been that they "don't have access to the reading" which is plain ridiculous.

I don't object to the standing charge in principle, it's just when it gets adjusted upward after switching to what was a cheaper per-unit tariff and we end up saving less than was original forecast, it's a little frustrating.

The other interesting thing is that while I know we use far less electricity than many of my friends - some of them living alone in one bed flats - we still get shown as "high usage" which is a bit weird.

Can I ask Malc, why EON cannot answer our query regarding the constant monthly overcharging? We were for a while on the perfect monthly DD, however, it kept going up and up (50% increase over the year) with the answer being we were estimated to be using more, yet we were doing nothing different. Then, at the end of the year we get told we've over paid (again) and get some credit. Personally, I'd rather have a more accurate, predicable, bill throughout the year - you have access to meter readings, so I don't see why this is a problem.

It's this which makes things difficult to estimate when the bill we get doesn't actually bare any relation to the electricity we use, with it all normalising with a credit at the end of the year.

Interestingly, EON's monthly standing charge is far far less than that MSE have given as a recommended switch-to. Though, on renewal, EON's per-unit charges are about 10% higher - up ~15% on our prior deal. The balance, contrary to MSE's recommendation that'd we'd save £200 a year, is that we'd be no worse off staying with EON.

It's a little confusing to be honest, it should be fairly simple, we know our usage, EON knows our usage, yet it seems impossible to get an accurate bill. The standing charge issue was more a bug bear of mine as we got caught out with a higher standing charge when we switched to a cheaper tariff one time.

I know I'm a bit ranty, but I do appreciate any feedback. Just want to try to get the best deal possible. When a fixed rate deal varies so much over the year, despite fairly consistent usage, it's a little worrying.

When you see your monthly DD go up every couple of months, based on purely estimated usage, despite both usage remaining constant and regular meter reading so back this up, you really wonder what's going on. Then for the difference to be credited at the end of the period, you wonder why. It's almost like they only check the actual usage data once a year.

FlatFour wrote: »

Sorry, further to my above post (I just checked a few things) our end of year summary thing has projections for next year. However, these are based on the estimated use once again, I have no data on actual use in that summary. As we know the estimates are way off, we don't actually know how much we'll be charged.

Usually we see a MASSIVE adjustment down at the start of the new 12 month billing period, which starts in December. Our monthly DD has been as much as halfed for the next few months, before starting to climb again each month and the pattern repeats.

Oddly, the "estimated usage" seems to be based on higher bills we see at the end of the period, thus is quite out and NOT based on actual readings as I've previously mentioned. Yet this exact figure is then used in projections, leading to more inaccuracy.

FlatFour wrote: »

Hi,

Yes, we're doing that. Originally we had a meter reader come to the door every month, now we submit the readings online every month as requested. Really shudda mentioned that shouldn't I? Sorry!

Hi FlatFour

Sorry to be a pain but I need to ask a few more questions. Are the meter readings you're giving us online each month actually being used on your bills? Must admit, I share your confusion with the statement about not having access to readings.

Where are you seeing the term 'high usage?' Is the property all electric? How do you heat the property and water?

You mention the Direct Debit goes up regularly. Has there ever been any debt on the account? From what you say, I doubt it, but if there has it'll be included in the arrangement and spread up until the annual review. This will lead to higher payments until the debt has been cleared. Thought it might help if I give you some information about how these payment arrangements work.

Energy usage changes during the year and you'll probably use more in winter than summer. The Direct Debit, though, aims to spread the cost evenly over the year. The amount is based on current prices and usage over the previous 12 months. A change to either will trigger a proposed decrease/increase otherwise accounts will build up too much credit/debit. Our aim is to achieve as near as possible to a zero balance by the time of the annual review. Also at the annual review, any credit over a fiver will automatically be refunded.

To make sure accounts are on track, we review these arrangements every quarter but, if necessary, will only change the amount at the mid-term and annual reviews. At the other times, we'll let you know if payments need to change but leave it up to you to make any adjustments. This is where the 'Direct Debit Manager' I mentioned yesterday comes in handy.

One thing that comes to mind, you said yesterday that you're on the Fixed 1 Year tariff (version 12). This was available between 29 October 14 and 28 November 14. If it hasn't already, this tariff is about to end and hence why you're looking at alternatives. Payment reviews look at how long is left on this tariff and then assume for the remainder of the 12 month payment period you'll be on our standard tariff. This is significantly more expensive than your present deal and will cause a suggested increase in the Direct Debit. Totally understand you won't be going on to standard prices but, until you choose another tariff, we won't know and so use this as a benchmark. Again, the 'Direct Debit Manager' can be useful here.

You mention, too, about the energy saving measures you've been taking. The results of this will only be reflected in the payment arrangement gradually. Amounts are based on the previous 12 months on a rolling basis so, if the cut backs were made during this time, they may not be included yet. Going forward they will be.

The annual summary is meant as a guide to help customers see how much energy they're using. It takes two dates 12 months apart and gives the usage for this period. As it's likely we won't have actual readings for the two days in question, it uses estimates based on past usage. As I say, this is a guide only. For a more accurate picture, it's best to look at the readings you've given us and calculate from there. Also, there's 12 months usage information in the MiData file on your online account. This is on the left hand menu when logged in.

Sorry for all the questions FlatFour. Trying to see what's happening here. Hope some of the other information above is useful.

Malc