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Parking charge when store was closed

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  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Everyone should read this regarding VAT and PPC's.

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatscmanual/vatsc57600.htm

    They refer to no VAT on fines or penalties but PPC's ARE NOT permitted to use such words
    What these private firms do not advertise is that they are not legally allowed to fine or penalise drivers for misusing private land – they can only impose a charge for potential losses or damages

    Parking Terms on the boards in car parks are very limited but they do warn you that if you exceed the free period they display, then there will be a charge for overstaying of say £70
    This actual means that they are saying they have no objection to you overstaying and you accept the extra charge.

    Therefore, on the link to HMRC, scroll down and you will see this

    "Excess charges subject to VAT
    Where the terms and conditions make it clear that the driver can continue to use the facilities after a set period upon payment of a further amount without being in breach of the contract - for example, no charge for an initial three hours parking but £70 if that period is exceeded - then the payment will be consideration for use of the facilities and subject to VAT."

    Can anyone point me to a PPC sign that says "You cannot park longer than the free time given"
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,071 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 2 January 2016 at 3:05AM
    chrismlclm wrote: »
    Looks like I've been converted. The argument about funding the "next" ticket was pretty persuasive. I can see you guys are looking at the bigger picture.
    Gonna write one more letter to the parking company tonight after work. Then read the threads recommend to me.
    The only thing I need reassurance of is that any credit rating won't be affected unless this goes to court and I don't I don't pay any losses obvs a judgment has been made. I'm living in partners house that she has worked very hard to buy and I don't want to affect her in any way.
    Thanks for the time you guys have spent in this.

    :)

    Beamerguy is right. You don't get a CCJ even if you get taken to small claims and lose - you'd have to then NOT PAY for 28 days after judgment, to get a CCJ staying on the register against you. If you paid within the right time, after losing in court, it's wiped completely from any record. And your case is significantly different enough from Beavis v ParkingEye to argue, if you found you had to defend a claim.

    As these are new kids on the block they are not going to be court-experienced or likely to pick on one particular single 'PCN' where the person has responded robustly, to try a claim against, IMHO. If they were going to try one at all it would be against an ignorer, I would suggest, in the hope that they'd get a default judgment. Most PPCs never try court.

    Most likely you will get the usual debt collector letter chain shown in post #4 of the NEWBIES thread and discussed far too often on unnecessary threads every week. You can ignore them:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350600#Comment_64350600

    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hi,
    I replied to the Euro Parking Services regarding the parking charge, requesting a breakdown and also showing them a picture of the entrance to the car park. Their reply is shown below:

    "The car park is free for patrons whilst on the premises only. This is in place so that there is sufficient spaces available for customers. Any vehicle found parked onsite who's driver has gone elsewhere is liable for a parking charge notice (PCN). The store was closed at the time your vehicle was parked giving you no authorisation to park. The signs are prominently displayed in and around the site and are obvious to any person who enters the site. It is incumbent upon motorists to read them. If they choose to ignore them then they submit to the terms nonetheless. The signs clearly state that the car park is for patrons only, regardless of the store being closed. The signs also state the opening and closing times of the car park, any vehicle found on site once the store has closed is liable for a Parking Charge Notice. We are not VAT registered, the element of VAT is invalid and we are not required to provide you with a breakdown of the charge therefore, the parking charge does not represent damages. Rather, it is the 'price' of parking. As such it does not have to represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Nor does it need to be commercially justified or have any lack of deterrence"

    Do I just ignore from now on and wait for whatever comes for me? Or do I send them another letter?

    The forum wont let me post pictures on here but the entrance clearly has no signs on it, which I sent them and definitely no times at all on the signage.
  • yotmon
    yotmon Posts: 485 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    chrismlclm wrote: »

    The signs also state the opening and closing times of the car park, any vehicle found on site once the store has closed is liable for a Parking Charge Notice.

    So, if the store closes at 17.30 hrs and I return to my vehicle at 17.31 hrs, then I'm liable for a parking charge, nice one !

    Does the sign have any mention of the above ?
  • No, it only mentions that there's a maximum stay of 90 mins and no return within two hours.

    I guess I'll just have to wait for the threatening letters to arrive and prepare for the worst.
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