30 Years and the african economy is still no better...

i8change

The third stanza of Kiplings "The White Man's Burden", still relevant today :-

"Take up the White Man's burden, The savage wars of peace—
Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought."

antrobus

i8change wrote: »

The third stanza of Kiplings "The White Man's Burden", still relevant today :-

"Take up the White Man's burden, The savage wars of peace—
Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought."

Casual racism that rhymes. How charming.:)

i8change

A poem that "hits the nail on the head" how perceptive..........well obvious really, except perhaps for the deluded.

By the way, "tribalism" is the norm, its endemic as any anthropologist will tell you. Starting at low levels with the likes of "soft johnny English" and getting more pronounced as you head south through the Middle East and into Africa. I find, ironically, that the (minority) deluded types that are fond of casting false aspersions with meaningless political words such as "racist" are those most likely to be supportive of mass immigration from these above mentioned areas.

Hence they are not only deluded and labouring under the false premise that racism/tribalism should not/will not exist but are complicit in the spread of the most pronounced forms of tribalism.

To me the utterence of "racism" just means another deluded, feeble minded being (with, seemingly, a total lack of inbuilt sense of caution or self preservation) most likely in the process of kicking itself (and its country:() up its own behind.

They would be amusing if it were not for the fact these types hold political power in the West and we are thus doomed to see increasing bloodshed and misery on the streets/news with little chance of any solution!

antrobus

i8change wrote: »

...They would be amusing if it were not for the fact these types hold political power in the West and we are thus doomed to see increasing bloodshed and misery on the streets/news with little chance of any solution!

What's even more amusing is that you don't know that the full title of Kipling's poem was "The White Man’s Burden: The United States and The Philippine Islands" and thus isn't about Africa.

System

antrobus wrote: »

Casual racism that rhymes. How charming.:)

It was written as a warning to the United States, then embarking on imperialism in the Philipines, that if they really wanted to take on this burden, they would find it as costly and ultimately as futile and illusionary a goal as we had.

antrobus

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

It was written as a warning to the United States, then embarking on imperialism in the Philipines, that if they really wanted to take on this burden, they would find it as costly and ultimately as futile and illusionary a goal as we had.

Unfortunately, no. As the contemporary evidence shows, Kipling was an imperialist, he believed that the United States should engage in the "business of introducing a sane and orderly administration to the dark places of the earth that lie to your hand". As he put it.

anchovypizza

The invading of other countries around the world just is not British anymore ;-), it's actually more or less frowned upon by most Western countries or anyone calling themselves civilised. I sometimes wonder if any of these third world world countries with any kind of democracy would put up elected franchises though which offer temporary governments and administration until these countries can stand on their own two feet in peaceful and thriving countries.

Apart from the obvious beautiful parts of Africa, can you imagine what wonderful places could be built if only it was peaceful, honest and safe. I sometimes look at places like the Ghana Liberia coastal areas on the mid west coast and think if only we had all that space.

So many people are risking their lives trying to sneak into the UK for better lives due to our way of life and more honest governments(small cough), more so in Britain then any of the others.If only we could kick start some of the countries in Africa to be more like us,

i8change

Originally Posted by antrobus
What's even more amusing is that you don't know that the full title of Kipling's poem was "The White Man’s Burden: The United States and The Philippine Islands" and thus isn't about Africa.

Your presumption that I did not know is incorrect. The subtitle you refer to and its publication in an American monthly (McClure's) at the begininning of the Philippine-American War are common knowledge.

What you seem to have a problem understanding is that the poem was not solely directed at America and the Phillipines but is about Empire/Colonialism and its responsibilities in general hence, lazily pasting from wiki:-

"The White Man", generally accepted to mean the colonial powers (Great Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, The Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Russia, Italy and the United States), had a duty to civilize the more brutish and barbaric parts of the world.

Africa is today (as then) a prime example of "the more brutish and barbaric parts of the world" and if you don't think (already being colonised then) it was one of the places he had in mind when he wrote the poem then more fool you.

antrobus

i8change wrote: »

Your presumption that I did not know is incorrect. The subtitle you refer to and its publication in an American monthly (McClure's) at the begininning of the Philippine-American War are common knowledge.

What you seem to have a problem understanding is that the poem was not solely directed at America and the Phillipines but is about Empire/Colonialism and its responsibilities in general hence, lazily pasting from wiki:-...

So you've now read the Wikipedia entry have you? Did you note the bit about it being "emblematic" of "Eurocentric racism".:)

i8change wrote: »

...Africa is today (as then) a prime example of "the more brutish and barbaric parts of the world" and if you don't think (already being colonised then) it was one of the places he had in mind when he wrote the poem then more fool you.

The place that Kipling had in mind was British India, which is where he was born, and where he started his career as a writer. India is not in Africa.:)

Sapphire

anchovypizza wrote: »

Apart from the obvious beautiful parts of Africa, can you imagine what wonderful places could be built if only it was peaceful, honest and safe. I sometimes look at places like the Ghana Liberia coastal areas on the mid west coast and think if only we had all that space.

So many people are risking their lives trying to sneak into the UK for better lives due to our way of life and more honest governments(small cough), more so in Britain then any of the others.If only we could kick start some of the countries in Africa to be more like us,

As with the Middle East, many people in the West simply don't understand African societies. It is mostly tribalism that is preventing the development of many African countries. They have been given a huge amount of financial and other aid, yet seem unable to get far on their own. They are certainly more affluent than they were before colonisation, but could be more so given the riches in their countries, if it weren't for the corrupt tin-pot dictators that seem to be the norm in most of them.

I have relatives who worked in Nigeria, Ghana and Kenya for years, and the level of crime, violence and corruption in those countries is very high. It was interesting to note that when my aunt left one of these countries, her employees cried and said they would be unable to find work. Perhaps the speed of change in their countries after pre-colonisation was simply too rapid for them to cope with? Perhaps they are just not suited, psychologically, to being Western democracies? It's all very difficult to explain…