unfair dismissal

paddyw_2

Hello
a friend has recently lost her job and we have reason to think this may be a case of unfair dismissal, She is now going through the company appeal procedure and has stated in her appeal letter that she would like to be reinstated in her job. This is unlikely.
She has been sent an email giving her a time and date for the appeal meeting - its miles away! The company have local shops with offices and training facilities above some of them - we cant see any reason they would want her to travel to an office 33 miles away! She has had to take her car off the road since being dismissed.
She received the email about this meeting today (Thursday) - it was sent by HR at 2pm and they said a letter was being organised to send out to her - the meeting is on Monday. She doesnt have a union rep and as she is no longer an employee, i am guessing that she woudlnt be able to take a ex colleague to the meeting (which in any case would be too short notice as staff rotas as organised a fortnight earlier)
She has replied to the email statng that she is unable to travel that far - she has absolutely no money.

Sorry to go on- the point I was eventually getting to is this - she is looking for a job but is now at a slight disadvantage in that she is 9 weeks pregnant so where normally she would be applying and no doubt getting shop work , she cant apply for anything which might require lifting and most shops employ staff to do replenishement as well as cashier. In addition, the minute she mentions she was dismissed, a new employer doesnt want to know.
Once the appeal meeting is over and she has the outcome we are going to go through ACAS concilliation and go to an tribunal. Now this is where we are confused - it would be advantageous for her if she could tell any future employer that she resigned and we were going to see if the company who sacked her would accept this and amend her reason for leaving to 'resigned' instead of 'dismissed'....but given that i think there is a good chance of winning at a tribunal, would that jeopardise her tribunal.

Sorry - I seem to have gone round the houses here, if Ive left any info out which would be useful, let me know

Many thanks

glentoran99

She can take an ex colleague with her

Takeaway_Addict

paddyw wrote: »

Hello
a friend has recently lost her job and we have reason to think this may be a case of unfair dismissal, She is now going through the company appeal procedure and has stated in her appeal letter that she would like to be reinstated in her job. This is unlikely.
She has been sent an email giving her a time and date for the appeal meeting - its miles away! The company have local shops with offices and training facilities above some of them - we cant see any reason they would want her to travel to an office 33 miles away! She has had to take her car off the road since being dismissed.
She received the email about this meeting today (Thursday) - it was sent by HR at 2pm and they said a letter was being organised to send out to her - the meeting is on Monday. She doesnt have a union rep and as she is no longer an employee, i am guessing that she woudlnt be able to take a ex colleague to the meeting (which in any case would be too short notice as staff rotas as organised a fortnight earlier)
She has replied to the email statng that she is unable to travel that far - she has absolutely no money.

Sorry to go on- the point I was eventually getting to is this - she is looking for a job but is now at a slight disadvantage in that she is 9 weeks pregnant so where normally she would be applying and no doubt getting shop work , she cant apply for anything which might require lifting and most shops employ staff to do replenishement as well as cashier. In addition, the minute she mentions she was dismissed, a new employer doesnt want to know.
Once the appeal meeting is over and she has the outcome we are going to go through ACAS concilliation and go to an tribunal. Now this is where we are confused - it would be advantageous for her if she could tell any future employer that she resigned and we were going to see if the company who sacked her would accept this and amend her reason for leaving to 'resigned' instead of 'dismissed'....but given that i think there is a good chance of winning at a tribunal, would that jeopardise her tribunal.

Sorry - I seem to have gone round the houses here, if Ive left any info out which would be useful, let me know

Many thanks

How long has she worked there and did the employer know she was pregnant?

sangie595

paddyw wrote: »

if Ive left any info out which would be useful, let me know

The information about what you say was unfair about the dismissal?

Unfortunately she does not have the right to refuse on the basis that the location of the appeal doesn't suit her. She could object to the short notice and she can ask for a change of venue. But in the end, if she fails to attend the appeal then she will be doing serious damage to any case that she has.

paddyw_2

Hi she has worked there for over four years. On the day od the incident, she was very stressed and anxious as she had found out that morning about her pregnancy - she has had previous problems in early pregnancy so was in a bit of a panic and her current personal situation isnt ideal. Really, she shouldnt have gone into work, We have pointed out in the appeal letter that a less conscientious employee would have phoned in sick given how she was feeling. As for the e cig she is at a total loss as to why she did it - shes ALWAYS telling customers off for it!
She was suspended then invited to a disciplinary meeting - prior to the meeting she emailed hr and explained what had happened So at the disciplinary meeting, because of the email, they were aware. Sacked her on the spot!

paddyw_2

Hi Blonde Bubbles, yes, same lady

sangie595

blondebubbles wrote: »

Is this the same person?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5346980

If that is the case, then I not consider it as cut and dried as some of the posters suggest. There is a ban on e-cigs in the workplace. If she had still been smoking and had absentmindedly lit a cigarette, then it would certainly have the potential to fall within gross misconduct, whatever her reason was. Speaking technically, this is no different. She knew there was a ban, so it was foolhardy at best to even have the e cig in her hand - it could infer an intention, even if she had never actually used it. But she did.

The thing is that her mitigation has no relevance to a tribunal - they will not take into account why she did it or her previous good record. All they are allowed to do to determine two things. Did she do it? - and the answer to that is yes, she did. Then, does the misconduct fall within a range that a reasonable employer might consider dismissing over? - and the answer to that might well be yes. There is a lot of leeway in that latter question - it is a judgement call by the tribunal.

But there is also a further risk - she did what she was accused of, so even if she won on the dismissal, there is a very high probability that the tribunal would find that she contributed to her own dismissal, and that would significantly cut into anything she might win.

It may not be palatable, but if she is offered any kind of alternative, especially one that gives her a good reference, I'd strongly recommend giving it serious consideration.

paddyw_2

We think it is unfair given that she has worked for the company for four years and has been reliable and well liked. At the drop of a hat she will work at another shop to cover sickness. A stern written warning wouldve been enough.
'gross misconduct' could be anything from theft to going home and leaving the shop unlocked!
Now finding it very difficult to get another job despite being on every job site going, walking round with CV in hand to apply for jobs in shop windows etc

paddyw_2

cant see the 'thanks' button on anyones posts but all info and advice greatly appreciated

w00519772

paddyw wrote: »

Hi she has worked there for over four years. When she first was sacked I asked on the forum about any benefits she might be able to claim so Ive just copied this next bit from my original post on there
She has worked for a national company for four years. Last week she committed a misdeameanor at work - nothing dishonest (she had in her hand an e cig and out of habit, absent mindedly used it for about three 'puffs' then realised!). The colleague she was working with said nothing at the time but as soon as she had left, the colleague got a friend to phone up and complain. Today she has been sacked for gross misconduct.

On the day od the incident, she was very stressed and anxious as she had found out that morning about her pregnancy - she has had previous problems in early pregnancy so was in a bit of a panic and her current personal situation isnt ideal. Really, she shouldnt have gone into work, We have pointed out in the appeal letter that a less conscientious employee would have phoned in sick given how she was feeling. As for the e cig she is at a total loss as to why she did it - shes ALWAYS telling customers off for it!
She was suspended then invited to a disciplinary meeting - prior to the meeting she emailed hr and explained what had happened and also pointed out that the colleague she was working with at the time doesnt like her (my friend is popular with customers - her colleague is sour faced and rude) and has been vindictive in asking a customer to lodge a complaint. So at the disciplinary meeting, because of the email, they were aware. Sacked her on the spot!

I am not sure what an e cig is. Did she pay for it? If I was an employer and an employee habitually stole from me then I would be very upset. Theft is a serious offence.

Sorry if this sounds harsh; it is just my opinion. I am no expert.

Torry_Quine

w00519772 wrote: »

I am not sure what an e cig is. Did she pay for it? If I was an employer and an employee habitually stole from me then I would be very upset. Theft is a serious offence.

Sorry if this sounds harsh; it is just my opinion. I am no expert.

There is no theft involved.

An e-cig looks somewhat similar to a normal cigarette but is used by those who don't want to smoke as it doesn't contain lots of chemicals, other than the nicotine itself of course.