Sold as seen now buyer wants to return and threatening legal action

[Deleted User]

We sold a car to a guy who refused to even take the car for a test drive.., I suggested twice he should to make sure he was happy with it. As far as we knew it was in very good working order.

He was a charity worker, he said.

About ten days later I got a series of fairly angry emails saying the car's tyres were illegal (it had been MOT'd days before the sale and no mention of the tyres needing replacing so no way), he said he'd been told it hadn't been services for years (wrong, was regularly serviced, last one done just before sale by my mechanic then partner), he said the 'bottom end had fallen out, the car had been inspected by friends, repaired by another garage etc.

At no time before this did he contact us and tell us there was a problem. He supposedly just went ahead and took it to a garage to be repaired.

He threatened legal action quite vehemently.

I reminded him it was sold as seen, if he had brought it back immediately, as my ex was a mechanic he'd have been happy to repair it (although didn't have to), taking it elsewhere for repairs not allowing us a chance to do the repairs. I also pointed out that the MOT made no mention of the tyres needing replacing, so had to be legal two days later. Also said he was reminded twice that he should take the car for a test drive (at the time I was wondering if he was insane to hand over £750 without even a test drive).

I suggested he go ahead and consult with his solicitor.

Never heard from him again. The tyre problem made me certain that there was in fact no truth in what he said. I knew that couldn't be true. It was a private sale of a car we used (had bought another one) so sold as seen applied.

Same for you. There's absolutely no come back on you. Do not offer money off.., do not take the car back. He had the opportunity to have the car inspected before buying (done this myself after nearly being conned buying a lemon that had been in a car crash, I hadn't noticed the signs, mechanic spotted them in minutes). After handing the money over, any problems are his. He's just wasting verbal space with his threats. Ignore.

philatio

Just tell him you've taken legal advice and that the car was inspected by him before the sale and deemed acceptable. You are not going to refund him and if he wishes to take it further legally, then he should do so.

You HAVE to tough it out. He is banking on scaring you enough to give him some money back.

George_Michael

deannatrois wrote: »

Same for you. There's absolutely no come back on you. Do not offer money off.., do not take the car back.

You should never state that as if it's 100% set in stone.
It isn't simply because all it take is for a single judge to agree that the vehicle was unroadworthy when sold and the OP becomes liable.

The road traffic act is very explicit over this:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

75. Vehicles not to be sold in unroadworthy condition or altered so as to be unroadworthy.
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section no person shall supply a motor vehicle or trailer in an unroadworthy condition.

The only time it is not an offence is if the vehicle was being sold as scrap and the buyer was fully aware of this.
There is no exemption for private sellers nor is it an excuse if the seller was unaware of the unroadworthiness of the vehicle.

I fully agree that it's very unlikely that the OP would lose if legal action was brought against them but in the end it would come down to one person's opinion and as this thread showed,
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5185951
it can happen.

unholyangel

George_Michael wrote: »

You should never state that as if it's 100% set in stone.
It isn't simply because all it take is for a single judge to agree that the vehicle was unroadworthy when sold and the OP becomes liable.

The road traffic act is very explicit over this:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75
The only time it is not an offence is if the vehicle was being sold as scrap and the buyer was fully aware of this.
There is no exemption for private sellers nor is it an excuse if the seller was unaware of the unroadworthiness of the vehicle.

I fully agree that it's very unlikely that the OP would lose if legal action was brought against them but in the end it would come down to one person's opinion and as this thread showed,
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5185951
it can happen.

There are more exemptions than that (at least where the seller is a private individual and not a trader):

(6)A person shall not be convicted of an offence under this section in respect of the supply or alteration of a motor vehicle or trailer if he proves—

(a)that it was supplied or altered, as the case may be, for export from Great Britain, or

(b)that he had reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used, F5. . .

I've been debating over whether OP could argue he reasonably believed it wasn't going to be used on the road in such a condition. On one hand, the guy told him he was going to do it up for his wife and OP made him aware of some issues. But on the other, unless the guy spoke of towing it in some manner, it should have been obvious that it was going to be on the road.

Would be handy if a judgement was available to read the judges reasoning in their own words - but going by the thread, the OP said they described the car as "Car drives very well and is in good condition". I'd fathom the judges reasoning that if there is a knack to changing gears & if the car was unroadworthy then the car is neither in good condition and nor does it drive well so didnt match its description.

pendragon_arther

shell7t8 wrote: »

Hi all,

I hope someone can give me some guidance.

I recently sold my car privately. First time ever sold a car.

The buyer turned up with his friend on the day who he said was an experiences car buyer. He checked the car over, checked the oil/tyres/engine etc etc. Took it for a test drive. Told me it needed a new tyre and also he thought the shocks needed doing but that he was happy to proceed and didnt want any money off etc and that the engine sounded great and was exactly as described.

He paid me the money, filled in the relevant parts of the v5, insured it, taxed it and took away the car and all the paperwork inc the mot and service history.

I subsequently posted off the v5 with newkeeper details the same day and he drove it 150 miles home.

Two days later i get atext saying he is returning the car as it has lots of faults which he wasnt aware of that now he hashad it checked by a mechanic he no longer wants it.

His reasons are an oil leak and something about the pistons needing rebuilding. Also that all of the shocks need doing snd not just one ashe had iriginally thought. He is saying on that basis the car is unsafe and dangerous and unroadworthy therefore im committing a criminal offence and it is not fit for purpose.

I really dont know what to do since a) i told him on the day i knew nothing about cars and that my description, which after test driving it he was happy with about the engine starting first time and sounding great was as far as i knew and b) i cant issue a refund since i hVe now purchases a new car with the funds from that one.

He is scaring me by saying i have acted illegally and that he has taken legal advice and i need some advice on my own on what my rights and obligations are.

Obviousely i would not have sold the car if it was unroadworthy since i had been driving it myself without any issues! He has even said he knows i didnt knowingly sell it with any issues but still that he is entitled to a full refund and is bringing it back as no longer has insurance! He has also said he is contacting dvla to cancel the change of keeper.

Im losing sleep over this now and just dont know what to do please can someone help??

S

Wally One said his mate knew about cars. Were his mate's eyes close together and was he playing a banjo?

Oil leaks produce oil and he looked it over presumably in broad daylight, so there would have been drips of oil. Pistons if damaged produce some sort of clue that they're not right, smoke, tickover faulty etc.

If you're American give him the one finger, but if British give him two.