Pool Selection Question

uptomyeyeballs

If a redundancy pool is formed and everyone is scored, then people selected for redundancy, what are the implications for the employer of not revealing/discussing criteria and scores with the employees involved, especially the ones selected for redundancy? What if the employer doesn't reveal that there is/was an appeal procedure either?

sangie595

The law doesn't remotely work like that. There could be a lot of implications - or none. It depends on exactly what has happened. And no generic answer to a generic question will get decent advice. So you need to explain what exactly the situation is and why you are questioning it.

uptomyeyeballs

Been scored in a pool, and told i've been unsuccessful in the jobs I expressed interest in, but criteria/scores haven't been revealed at all for the scoring. I haven't been able to discuss my scores or appeal, just been told I haven't got a job any more. I just want to know if this is defective procedure.

sangie595

Have you actually asked to see your scores? The employer does not have to tell you anything at all about what other people scored - they are entitled to withhold any information from which you may be able to identify individuals. But without being able to compare that against the scores of others, it doesn't tell you anything.


You know you have the right of appeal - so if you wish to appeal, then do it. You cannot sit around doing nothing and then go back to the employer through an employment tribunal claiming they didn't give you a right when you knew about it and didn't use it. If you lodge a complaint on this basis, the most likely outcome will be that the employer will be allowed to hold the appeal anyway.


The law operates on the basis that both employers and employees should know their rights - so you cannot depend on them not doing something you haven't asked for to get you a payout. And you would also need to be quite cautious anyway - you would probably have to fund a case, and if the employer makes a minor procedural error in not advising you of a right to appeal, whilst you didn't appeal anyway, you might get a technical win, but after the redundancy payment you received has been deducted from any award, you could walk away with nothing.


If you genuinely wish to appeal your redundancy, then do it now because there won't be a better time. And if all you are looking for is to snooker the employer into a tribunal, you may find the outcome is definitely not to your liking.

uptomyeyeballs

I didn't say anything about other people's scores, just my own scores and how they've been arrived at. I don't even know what criteria have been used for the scoring as they haven't showed me. Do I have a right to see them?

I've never been made redundant before. Some info on this subject is conflicting, so I want to be sure I have better knowledge and understanding of my situation, that's why I ask the question. No need to be so aggressive about it.

asajj

My understanding is that you should be able to see your own scores and see what you are given. ACAS website / call center might be able to help you as well. Good luck with all.

sangie595

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

I didn't say anything about other people's scores, just my own scores and how they've been arrived at. I don't even know what criteria have been used for the scoring as they haven't showed me. Do I have a right to see them?

I've never been made redundant before. Some info on this subject is conflicting, so I want to be sure I have better knowledge and understanding of my situation, that's why I ask the question. No need to be so aggressive about it.

No aggression. Just the actual facts. If you don't like the facts, that is your prerogative.

You don't need to be so evasive - did you ask to see your scores or not? Did you ask about the right to appeal or not? You cannot simply decide that you don't like the question in a tribunal. So what is the answer.

uptomyeyeballs

Sorry sangie595, my conversation with you is done.

AndyBSG

They should show you your scores but not other people's scores. (I think discussing the scores with you and giving you the chance to challenge them is actually a required part of the redundancy process?)

I was made redundant a couple of years ago and knew I wouldn't make the cut, there were 4 developer positions going and 4 remaining.

The whole department knew who 3 of the positions would be filled by because the 3 guys in question were the only ones who knew how everything worked.

The remaining position was out of 2 other people and there was very little to choose between them.... In a bit of a shock both of them were made redundant and the final position was taken by another developer who wasn't as good as either of them but was the wife of the departments assistant manager!

When doing the scoring there were about 10 categories rated out of 5 as unacceptable, poor, acceptable, good, excellent.

One of the two guys who should had a shot at the job scored 'acceptable' in 3 of the categories even though his appraisals for the last 6 years had all rated him good or excellent in those categories and the most recent appraisal had only taken place 3 months before.

Needless to say he challenged the scoring on this basis. Still didn't get the job but he did get a settlement that basically doubled his redundancy as he had so much evidence which showed he had been deliberately down marked in certain categories so the Assistant Managers wife scored higher than him which would have made a tribunal pretty much a foregone conclusion.

You have a right to know your scores and a right to challenge them but you need to be able to provide evidence why they are wrong which is very difficult to do unless you know how other people scored.

i.e if both John and Tim score 'acceptable' in timekeeping but John was actually 5 minutes late 3 times in the last year then Tim has no way of knowing he scored the same as someone he actually should have beaten in that category as he doesn't know John's score....

Also they can quite easily say 'We didn't score ratings based on the last twelve months but only took the last three months into account' so even if he did know that they can still 'fix' the scores as long as it can't be proven.(i.e if they said they only looked at last 3 months but you found evidence that it was last 12 months and then changed when you challenged it so they got the result they wanted then they would be in deep trouble but only a HR department of extreme incompetence would ever be caught out like that!)

KayJay

If you are in a union then contact your Branch Secretary as the union are usually part of the decision making process around what is contained within the selection criteria.

uptomyeyeballs

No, not in a union.

Currently i'm still at the company, my original job has not existed for about 6 months now, and am currently in limbo, doing other project work while they look to see if alternative employment comes up within the company. If we don't find anything suitable I'll be getting my notice, but don't know when that will be. I'm still on full pay, with no change in benefits, so no hardship involved, but they're going to have to make a decision soon. I'm currently compiling a list of errors, anomalies and oversights in the redundancy process in case I need to use them later. It may not be necessary, but knowing they have made errors in the redundancy selection procedure may give me a better bargaining position later if necessary.