Letting out home to avoid care home costs?

macman

MisterMuso wrote: »

Well, I spoke to my solicitor again, and she said it all hinges on the premise that my mother can't sell half a house, because it was jointly bought by her and my father, six months before she went into the home. When my father passed away therefore, instead of becoming solely her property, the half belonging to my father is now mine and my sister's. My solicitor says she's never heard of the council forcing families to make back-payments in my circumstances, However, I've found a rather worrying report about "avoidance inspectors" recently employed by the council in Buckinghamshire who have been doing just that, in cases where parents have signed the property over to be owned by their children before they go into home. My father leaving half the property to myself may come under the same "deprivation of assets" label, I fear.
Though purchasing a property as tenants in common rather than as joint tenants might be considered unusual at their age.
As I say, I'm not actively seeking ways to "avoid" what some say should come out of my mother's property share; I'm just trying to make sense of the law and of the advice I've been given to let the property out, and whether that would be just postponing the inevitable.

Your mother didn't sign over half of her house to you-your father did. So she has not in any way engaged in deprivation of assets. They cannot force a sale of the house without your agreement, and I rather doubt that they'd put a charging order on it in these circumstances.

GaleSF63

anmarj wrote: »

Because she reside in Scotland and they contribute towards the fees anyway, attendance allowance is not payable.

It depends on her needs, (which are assessed by the council who would be paying).

jennifernil

We don't have "joint tenants" or "tenants in common" in Scotland. But when a couple buy a house they can choose to insert a survivorship clause which means that the house automatically passes to the survivor rather than having to be covered by the will.

Your father was very astute, he has protected at least 50% of the value of the house by not having the survivorship clause and instead willing his half of it to you and your sister.

The assumption now is that half a house (as now owned by your mother) has no value as nobody would buy half a house, so should be disregarded when it comes to paying for her care.

If you sell the house now, half of the proceeds would go to your mother and immediately be available to be used to pay for her care.

If instead you rent it out, only half of the rent paid will belong to your mother to be used in this way.

Then on your mother's death, you and your sister would presumably inherit your mother's share of the property.

If the council are to claim any money from the house, they would have to place a charge on it now, not come looking afterwards.

jennifernil

GaleSF63 wrote: »

It depends on her needs, (which are assessed by the council who would be paying).

In Scotland, those who are assessed as needing such help receive "free personal care". This means they get free help with wash, dressing, feeding etc.

They do not get Attendance Allowance as well if in a care home.

Some info here on how works........



" Your local council can provide a flat rate payment for the personal and nursing care part of your care home fees if:

• you're aged 65 or over and living in a care home which you pay for yourself
• and you've been assessed as having personal or nursing care needs

People of all ages can receive payments for nursing care if they've been assessed as needing it.

Payments for personal and nursing care are only part of the care home fees. You'll still have to contribute towards your accommodation and living costs in the care home the residential part of your care home fees.

Rates

The rates paid by the council from April 2015 are:

• £171 a week for personal care
• £78 a week for nursing care

How the payments are made

An assessment of your care needs will be carried out and a contract made between the local council and the care provider. Only then will your council make payments directly to the care provider on your behalf.
The council doesn't have to backdate the payments to the date you moved into the care home.
If you choose to receive the payment for the personal care part of your care home fees, you'll no longer be eligible for Attendance Allowance after 28 days.

You must tell the Department of Work and Pensions about your change in circumstances by phoning 08457 123 456.

Read more about free personal and nursing care."

monkeyspanner

MisterMuso wrote: »

Well, I spoke to my solicitor again, and she said it all hinges on the premise that my mother can't sell half a house, because it was jointly bought by her and my father, six months before she went into the home. When my father passed away therefore, instead of becoming solely her property, the half belonging to my father is now mine and my sister's. My solicitor says she's never heard of the council forcing families to make back-payments in my circumstances, However, I've found a rather worrying report about "avoidance inspectors" recently employed by the council in Buckinghamshire who have been doing just that, in cases where parents have signed the property over to be owned by their children before they go into home. My father leaving half the property to myself may come under the same "deprivation of assets" label, I fear.

As I say, I'm not actively seeking ways to "avoid" what some say should come out of my mother's property share; I'm just trying to make sense of the law and of the advice I've been given to let the property out, and whether that would be just postponing the inevitable.

I am unsure of the position in Scotland but in England your mother's care home fees would be considered a debt accruing on her estate. One advantage of deferrred payment is that I believe the debt accruing does not attract interest whilst your mother is alive. Therefore you would have a hopefully increasing asset but the debt would not be attracting interest. You could consider renting the property and if your mother is self funding the net income could be used to pay part of her care home fees without any downside. There would of course be the issue of the proportion of income which would be yours as part owner of the house. I believe the solicitor may be referring to the practice that councils considered a part owned house as having no value because a sale would require the other part owners agreement. In todays environment I believe most councils would do their best to recover the debt.

As you say you might consider renting is not worth the effort. Renting can have some advantages as you can set repair costs and / or renovation costs against the rental income. The tenants would also be responsible for utilities and council tax.

As regards your Father leaving half the house to you and deprivation of assets. I would not consider this relevant as it is up to the individual to decide what to do with their estates. The situation would have been different if your Mother had transferred her half of the house to you when her health was such that a move to a care home might have been a consideration.

Ian011

jennifernil wrote: »

"Tou must tell the Department of Work and Pensions about your change in circumstances by phoning 08457 123 456.

Read more about free personal and nursing care."

Following Cabinet Office guidance published on 26 December 2013, DWP changed their premium rate 0845 lines over to cheaper 0345 numbers on 24 March 2014.

Check the official DWP website for the current numbers.

Calls to 03 numbers are inclusive from landlines and mobiles else charged at 'geographic rate' - the same as 01 and 02 numbers.