money paid in error

spacemates_2

Hi everyone and thanks for reading, my daughter is 18 years old in mid September she returned from a collage course related work placement at eurocamp in France, she was working there throughout the summer season, upon her return she received threatening texts from her former employer a Michelin one star chef, his threats were out of the blue and stating that he would get her a criminal conviction and she no longer had a job, it was agreed that after the eurocamp placement she would have her job back at a London branch of his restaurant, she was relying on the job because she has moved there to start university, she phoned us saying he was threatening her and she did not know what it was all about.
It turn out that the management team this celebrity chef employs made an error with someone's wages whilst she was away, they had paid her £1000 ish in error they claim they had contacted her via email many times and she ignored them so they were taking her to court to regain the money, she did not have access to emails and to be honest she had no need to girls her age don't use them from what I have hear, all her friends chat via social media and the likes (I have no clue) but the fact is if they emailed then she did not look at any never mind there's, she did not have the same telephone number because she was abroad for a long time so she purchased new SIM card for France within days of her arrival due to the rates, so if they thought she was ignoring them that way they were again wrong, she simply did not know, all she did was work all hours over there and party as a young girl should do during an life experience like that.
She was only back in the UK with us for six days then we had to drop her off at her new student home in London, she was there one day and then the threats started to arrive and she called us distraught and in tears saying she didn't have the job she was promised and that her boss was going to get her a criminal record for theft and that would stop her future career that she was studying for, she had no idea they had paid her in error she did not even know they had paid her anything, all her bank statements were here at home unopened all her letters were here again unopened simply because she had no worries and nothing at all official.
It turn out they had never written to her at any point officially only via text (pointless) and email again pointless, I told her not to worry and sent my texts to this celeb chef telling him what I thought of him and I demanded the details of his solicitor by return, I received a couple of replies saying there was not a need to go to that expence and delay we could sort it out but I wanted his solicitors details I said because he had lost her a job she was relying on and was threatening her so I wanted to sort him my way to stop it from happening again to others, and to shock him a little for being so big headed and picking on a young girl.
After my texts I heard nothing and my daughter heard nothing, then the post man delivered a letter to us but said this was addressed to next door (wrong number on letter) but it's your daughters name does she live here or has she moved next door?! The letter was this chef's company saying we had failed to pay the money back and they were taking her to court soon, so fuming again I called the chef, no answer! I text him no reply, I called the number on the letter and again no answer, I text again telling him how foolish they all were and how many mistakes they had made guess what no reply!
Last week we received a county court summons for the £1000 plus costs so I do not know what to do, we do not have that money to give to stop the ccj and my daughter certainly does not have it she is a student and because of him she currently as no income but is looking for a job, what if anything can we do, I know you will say where did the money go we asked that and she said it went into her bank account and because of her location and lack of knowledge of it she simply spent it money was going to her from wages (eurocamp) from us the tax man (we opened that letter as you do) and student grants loans etc so she did what we all would do and purchased what she needed for student life in London and lived so now she is unemployed so living off what little remains, what advise can you give us,,, sorry to babble but I wanted you to get the sort of full picture.

w00519772

spacemates wrote: »

Hi everyone and thanks for reading, my daughter is 18 years old in mid September she returned from a collage course related work placement at eurocamp in France, she was working there throughout the summer season, upon her return she received threatening texts from her former employer a Michelin one star chef, his threats were out of the blue and stating that he would get her a criminal conviction and she no longer had a job, it was agreed that after the eurocamp placement she would have her job back at a London branch of his restaurant, she was relying on the job because she has moved there to start university, she phoned us saying he was threatening her and she did not know what it was all about.
It turn out that the management team this celebrity chef employs made an error with someone's wages whilst she was away, they had paid her £1000 ish in error they claim they had contacted her via email many times and she ignored them so they were taking her to court to regain the money, she did not have access to emails and to be honest she had no need to girls her age don't use them from what I have hear, all her friends chat via social media and the likes (I have no clue) but the fact is if they emailed then she did not look at any never mind there's, she did not have the same telephone number because she was abroad for a long time so she purchased new SIM card for France within days of her arrival due to the rates, so if they thought she was ignoring them that way they were again wrong, she simply did not know, all she did was work all hours over there and party as a young girl should do during an life experience like that.
She was only back in the UK with us for six days then we had to drop her off at her new student home in London, she was there one day and then the threats started to arrive and she called us distraught and in tears saying she didn't have the job she was promised and that her boss was going to get her a criminal record for theft and that would stop her future career that she was studying for, she had no idea they had paid her in error she did not even know they had paid her anything, all her bank statements were here at home unopened all her letters were here again unopened simply because she had no worries and nothing at all official.
It turn out they had never written to her at any point officially only via text (pointless) and email again pointless, I told her not to worry and sent my texts to this celeb chef telling him what I thought of him and I demanded the details of his solicitor by return, I received a couple of replies saying there was not a need to go to that expence and delay we could sort it out but I wanted his solicitors details I said because he had lost her a job she was relying on and was threatening her so I wanted to sort him my way to stop it from happening again to others, and to shock him a little for being so big headed and picking on a young girl.
After my texts I heard nothing and my daughter heard nothing, then the post man delivered a letter to us but said this was addressed to next door (wrong number on letter) but it's your daughters name does she live here or has she moved next door?! The letter was this chef's company saying we had failed to pay the money back and they were taking her to court soon, so fuming again I called the chef, no answer! I text him no reply, I called the number on the letter and again no answer, I text again telling him how foolish they all were and how many mistakes they had made guess what no reply!
Last week we received a county court summons for the £1000 plus costs so I do not know what to do, we do not have that money to give to stop the ccj and my daughter certainly does not have it she is a student and because of him she currently as no income but is looking for a job, what if anything can we do, I know you will say where did the money go we asked that and she said it went into her bank account and because of her location and lack of knowledge of it she simply spent it money was going to her from wages (eurocamp) from us the tax man (we opened that letter as you do) and student grants loans etc so she did what we all would do and purchased what she needed for student life in London and lived so now she is unemployed so living off what little remains, what advise can you give us,,, sorry to babble but I wanted you to get the sort of full picture.

If it was received in error then pay it back or arrange to pay it back in installments. If it was not received in error then prove it to the claimant. Surely it is as simple as that?

CKhalvashi

Where was she working previously?

Oh, and where is the company actually based?

From my limited knowledge, if it's a French debt, it would need to be issued in the French courts, then enforced in the UK through a European Enforcement Order. There is, however, a valid claim for the overpaid wages, and they are more than entitled to deal with it as they see fit, which in this case is through the courts.

The theft allegation is baseless, as they willingly paid the money. They are, however, entitled to it back.

Not communicating with them to get a payment plan into place hasn't helped the matter, neither has your daughter not checking her texts, assuming she's had her phone with her.

I am an employer, and I'd probably be getting close to a court claim stage now if you'd send me texts telling me what you think of me and requesting solicitors details, without actually offering at all to come to some arrangement to pay the money back.

spacemates_2

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Where was she working previously?

Oh, and where is the company actually based?

From my limited knowledge, if it's a French debt, it would need to be issued in the French courts, then enforced in the UK through a European Enforcement Order. There is, however, a valid claim for the overpaid wages, and they are more than entitled to deal with it as they see fit, which in this case is through the courts.

The theft allegation is baseless, as they willingly paid the money. They are, however, entitled to it back.

Not communicating with them to get a payment plan into place hasn't helped the matter, neither has your daughter not checking her texts, assuming she's had her phone with her.

I am an employer, and I'd probably be getting close to a court claim stage now if you'd send me texts telling me what you think of me and requesting solicitors details, without actually offering at all to come to some arrangement to pay the money back.

Hi she worked here in the UK with them until March the money was paid in June from what we're have been told, she simply did not have the same mobile number while she was in France she purchased another SIM card because hers did not work overseas, so no texts were ever received.

CKhalvashi

spacemates wrote: »

Hi she worked here in the UK with them until March the money was paid in June from what we're have been told, she simply did not have the same mobile number while she was in France she purchased another SIM card because hers did not work overseas, so no texts were ever received.

So a UK claim is perfectly valid and this is being dealt with in the correct way.

The best hope of avoiding the CCJ is going to be offering to pay monthly in installments, with the agreement that she won't defend a court claim if she fails to pay, even if the payment is only a day late.

The court costs will need to be paid, too, as part of this voluntary arrangement.

elsien

Your daughter is 18 and legally an adult. Whilst I sympathise with your wish to help her out, the employer has no obligation to discuss the case with you. Communicating on her behalf by text and telling him what you think of him is really not helpful and will probably make things worse.
Has your daughter written him a sensible letter explaining the situation and offering to work out a repayment plan? She should not expect to keep £1000 that is not hers just because she's spent it. And I have to say, I think it would be quite hard for an impoverished student not to wonder where all the extra money was coming from - surely she had some idea of budget and what was in the account to start with?

TBagpuss

OK, I can understand that if she was paid in June and didn't respond in any way until October, it's not unreasonable that the restaurant thought that she was ignoring them.

Did she, once she got home, contact them at all to explain the situation and ask about arranging repayment?

The most important thing is that she doesn't ignore the County Court claim - it is absolutely vital that she responds within the time scales on the form.

From what you say, she did have the money so she is going to have to repay it, and as it has taken this long and they've issued proceedings, she is also probably going to have to pay the court fee and possibly something to the costs

At this point, the priority would seem to be trying to avoid a CCJ.

- If she pays the debt, then the claim should be withdrawn = no CCJ. Can she, or you afford to pay, or borrow the money?
- if she makes an offer which the creditor accepts then they could agree to withdraw the claim.

It may be worth her making a **written** offer, setting out politelythe fact that unfortunately she was out of the country and didn't receive the previous communications, setting out her financial position and making a proposal to pay by installments

In the mean time, she does need to respond to the claim form

If she admits the claim but explains she can't afford to repay, then the court will consider her finances and determine how much she has to pay per week / month.

More info here https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/northampton-business-centre/ccbc/frequently-asked-questions

Thrugelmir

spacemates wrote: »

sent my texts to this celeb chef telling him what I thought of him and I demanded the details of his solicitor by return, I received a couple of replies saying there was not a need to go to that expence and delay we could sort it out but I wanted his solicitors details I said because he had lost her a job she was relying on and was threatening her so I wanted to sort him my way to stop it from happening again to others, and to shock him a little for being so big headed and picking on a young girl.

Perhaps if you had accepted the offer. Then the matter could have been resolved without fuss. Doesn't sound as if you've had a helpful involvement to be honest.

Ben8282

Unless the police somehow get involved and it can be proven that your daughter somehow fraudulently transferred the money to her own bank account herself then forget about the criminal conviction, it is just an empty threat.
With regard to the rest of it, I don't think much of the way her former employer has gone about things. After all, they made the error. The obvious way for them to start would be to write politely to her, apologising for the error and asking politely if she would be kind enough to return the money.
Can the employer prove that she was not owed this money. She could claim it was back pay, holiday pay, a bonus .... etc. She could claim that she was promised this that and the other and the employer changed his mind.

CKhalvashi

Ben8282 wrote: »

Unless the police somehow get involved and it can be proven that your daughter somehow fraudulently transferred the money to her own bank account herself then forget about the criminal conviction, it is just an empty threat.
With regard to the rest of it, I don't think much of the way her former employer has gone about things. After all, they made the error. The obvious way for them to start would be to write politely to her, apologising for the error and asking politely if she would be kind enough to return the money.
Can the employer prove that she was not owed this money. She could claim it was back pay, holiday pay, a bonus .... etc. She could claim that she was promised this that and the other and the employer changed his mind.

Which would ultimately be keeping the money by deception, which is probably covered in the Fraud Act somewhere.

Trying to claim she was working when she was obviously travelling isn't a good idea, and I'd be more than happy to mention it in a reference if someone tried this, even more so if that attempt failed.

CalumHeath

So the summary of the story is: your daughter was accidentally paid some money she wasn't entitled to and she spent it?

Is this correct?