The building admin/management company from hell

freedommmm

1. Let's start by saying that I bought the flat over a year and a half ago. It is a share of freehold with a 999 year part-lease. A few months after the completion I received an S20 notice from the building management/admin company - they were intending to do major external works. No mention WHATSOEVER of the size, the cost, or actual repairs involved. I admit, I did not have enough experience to query them and assumed it must be relatively trivial. A few months later, they sent a 2nd notice with a full breakdown and it turned out to be into tens of thousands of pounds.
I protested, but they said they advised my solicitors before I bought it that they were intending to do the works, and it was true, they did say so (one line of text). The solicitors failed to advise, then were closed down and I am currently seeking compensation from their insurance company, but that it another topic.
Their "tender" process was a farce - get a massive list of repairs, which to me seemed totally unreasonable and unnecessary, pick several of the most expensive building companies in the UK and make it look like we picked the 2nd or 3rd most expensive one.
I was immediately very suspicious and protested because I had no chance to nominate any other builders in free market to get quotes from, and no chance to get a 2nd opinion on necessity of any of these works!
I could not prove anything in the meeting of landlords/shareholders of the building, and they insisted on proceeding. But I did suspect that the administration company is corrupt - we are paying too much for works, most of which are unnecessary.
2. The service charges are outrageous. We have a typical old five storey house (Victorian terrace I believe) without a lift in London. The charges are nearly £4000 per year. I have no idea where they are going, but when challenged - they produce a long list of things that, on the face of it, explain it.
I think we are paying more than double what we should be!
3 a. This flat is a top floor one. In summer the flat below me experienced a leak. The admin company insisted that they send plumbers to my flat to drill holes in my new wooden floor and look for the leaking pipes. They had cameras and after drilling holes in the reception room/kitchen found nothing and concluded the leaks were nothing to do with me after all. Despite that, the admin company person insisted on snooping through my kitchen to look for leaks anyway!!!
b. The flat below experienced a bigger and active leak. This time the admin company person came in again with plumbers and concluded it must be coming from my shower. I hired my own tradesmen who investigated and found that there was a plastic sync/pipe thing broken so they replaced it. They tested everything and made photos plus their report and invoice for it AND proposed fixes e.g. replacing silicon sealant.
The admin company refused to accept this report for insurance because it wasn't in the correct format. I chased the tradesmen to issue the correctly formatted report/invoice and replace the silicon for a couple of months and then happened point c.
c. Very recently I work up in the morning due to heavy dripping sound above me (the roof). Didn't give it much thought because of the heavy rain(!!!). Turned out the flat below experienced yet another big and active leak that started at exactly the same time. There was nobody using the shower since the evening before and nobody even in the flat for most of the morning, while dripping continued. The admin company blamed my shower again and sent the flat below letting agent + plumbers to see. They opened the shower tap and checked downstairs and it was dripping - so it must be the shower.
But I insisted that they at least ask the builders on the roof about anything unusual and YES - they admitted that had actually removed roof tiles, opened the roof in the pouring London rain. (Hint!)
IMPORTANT NOTE: the admin company person seemed to be on VERY FAMILIAR terms with the builders and spoke the same language, likely to be the same dialect. They assumed I don't speak their language, but they were wrong!

Now the admin company wants me to pay for repairs of my shower (i.e. silicon + perhaps installing an electric pump for drainage) + damage of the flat below. They advised that the insurance claim for previous leaks had already been closed without my knowledge and the flat below had been fixed, covered by the insurance.
They refuse to take anything from me to the insurance company and say that I am not covered for anything to do with the latest leak. The person is rude, unhelpful and aggressive. He/she accused me of saying that I "refused" to do repairs. In fact, I have not ever said so! I asked that they allocate another person instead but my calls are simply ignored, just like anything I ever say to them.
I do not even believe it is coming from my shower in the first place. I think likely that the builders (friends of the admin person) opened the roof and allowed pouring rain to get in, the water went downstairs. Or worse they poured some buckets of it somewhere in there.
Update. I actually now have some large leaky spots in my own ceiling that started at the same time when builders opened holes in the roof in a pouring rain. Actually it is approximately the same time as the flat downstairs experienced their leaks.
Additionally, the do not bother to fix issues when I ask them to e.g. light fitting at the entrance for 3 weeks now.
Questions:

- How can I defend my rights and at least try to prove that it is NOT coming from my shower? One suggestion is that they look underneath the shower tray, and if its all dry, it must be proof enough?
- If I must pay for some shower "repairs", how can I seek at least some compensation from the building insurance company?
- IMPORTANTLY, some other (majority) landlords already hinted that they are planning to get rid of the expensive admin company. How can I initiate the formal process of sacking the building management company quickly?
- How can I prove they were ripping off the landlords/flat owners for service charges and how they forced us to have a massively inflated external works, using the contractor whose workers happen to be in cahoots with the admin company person? (ie. corruption, bribes, kickbacks, dishonesty) ?

Any useful help will be appreciated.
Thanks!

libf

Too long, didn't read. If you split that wall of text up with some line breaks then other people will be more likely to attempt it...

Kynthia

Have you been to the lease.org website? Can you arrange a meeting with the other flat owners to see what they think and know.

Marktheshark

Get everyone together, organise a ballot and SACK THEM.
Yes you can

G_M

LOTS of guidance and legalinformation on rights on this government-sponsored website:

http://www.lease-advice.org/

freedommmm

Firstly, apologies for the text that is way too wordy! Secondly, thank you for your helpful thoughts and links!
I have some positive news. The richer neighbour, who happens to be one of the directors of our freehold (of which flat owners are shareholders) advised that we are indeed planning to review our admin/management company and will look for better alternatives. Another words, it will be an excellent opportunity to sack them.


To clarify:


- How can we dispute the existing service charges? ie. prove they are unreasonable and they are doing unnecessary repairs?


- Am I correct in saying that the very first Section 20 notice to start major external works - MUST specify a clear estimate of cost and extent of proposed works?

G_M

Surely if you (the leaseholders) own the freehold, and employ the mgmt co to act on your behalf, you can simply instruct your employees (the mgmt company, not to proceed at this time?

Get a quorum of the directors together and have a vote.

freedommmm

Really pressing is this question:


How do I prove that water is coming down to the flat downstairs from the roof due to the works on the roof and builders who opened holes in it, plus heavy banging that causes cracks?
I now have many new leaky spots in my own ceiling and cracks (!!!) and I have sent photos to the management company. But how do prove that my shower cabin has nothing to do with the leaks downstairs? They keep accusing me of causing leaks downstairs, while there was not even anybody in the house, and no one has been using the shower for over 12 hours!

G_M

*
Either
* get a professional report eg
- an RICS surveyor
- a quote from a reputable builder/roofer showing there is a roof problem
- a reputable plumber to inspect your shower and write a report

* get the freehold company that employs the management comany involved

* get the building's insurance company involved via a claim

bouicca21

Whilst you may well be right about the source of the leak, bear in mind that knowing there is a leak and tracking its source is actually quite difficult. In my family home we had a huge and serious damp problem on one wall. It seemed to be obvious that it was the nearby radiator. But no, the leak actually turned out to be in the mains water pipe some 8 - 10 foot away - the water was draining down a slight slope under the floor and collecting in an area where further drainage was blocked.

So an initial assumption that your shower was the problem, seems reasonably valid. But it now sounds as though you have plenty of evidence to suggest that it is the roof that needs fixing.

TBH if I were presented with a service charge of £4,000, I'd be calling for an audit - and surely as shared freehold, you and your fellow leaseholders have every right to inspect the accounts.

freedommmm

I have at least some good news. I found an independent plumber who fully investigated the shower issues and fully re-worked the shower cabin from scratch, then produced a full report that pointed out at problems with the old shower cabin construction. In the end, the admin company complied and in fact, the insurance company paid for what they felt was covered. It was most of the repairs. In addition, building contractors painted the leaky spots really well at their own cost.

There has been no movement on service charges.