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Flue not installed correctly when house was built 10 years ago... Any advice?
JemmyP
Posts: 10 Forumite
Evening,
I'm after some help / advice with an issue I have with my flue (the metal cylindrical chimney type thing that vents the clean / dirty air in and out of the boiler). Sorry in advance for the very long post!
I moved into my property just over 3 years ago. I am the second owner, and at the time of moving in it was 7 years old, with 1 previous owner from new.
Last week I had a plumber come over to fix an (unrelated) issue with my boiler, they replaced a component which then got it working again, as such I then asked for them to service my boiler as I'd never got around to having that done since I have moved in (in hindsight a very silly mistake).
The plumber serviced and cleaned the boiler, during cleaning he noticed a substantial amount of ash build up. Upon completion he attempted to fire the boiler and found that there was a delay in ignition and the appliance would not maintain, cutting out after approximately 5-10 seconds. He then opened the case to inspect the electrode and noticed the boiler stayed alight, and as such suspected a flueing problem and an inspection of the flue revealed:
· No clamp at flue outlet, sealed with duct tape only
· The flue in the loft had 2 elbows installed
· The horizontal section in loft was sloping downwards forming a natural trap in the pipework
· Flue insufficiently supported
· No collar where flue extension joined vertical roof terminal
· Equivalent length of flue was 5400mm; Manufacturer’s instructions state a maximum length of 3400 with no elbows
· No self-tapping screws in flue joints, we found them in a box in the loft
· The flue was opened for inspection at the joints and was found to be blocked by ash content at the low section of the horizontal flue, the ash content had actually corroded the internal flue and products of combustion were mixing with the fresh air supply
To fix this issue it will cost somewhere in the region of £2000 - £3,000. As the flue needs replacing and as the flue is now 10 years old it is very expensive (4 times the usual price per meter)!
Our gas to the central heating system has been turned off and we've been issued with a 'Warning Notice' as is standard when the gas appliance is listed as being 'Immediately Dangerous'.
It is evident that when it was installed the plumber who did it didn't look at the manual for the specifications as to how long the flue should be and also used gaffer tape to seal a couple of sections instead of screwing in the clamps where each section began and finished.
I'm trying to work out whom, if anyone is liable for this horrendous installation, which is very dangerous and could have lead to my partner or I being seriously hurt or killed by carbon monoxide poisoning, or potentially a fire due to the blockage.
I've spent the last 10 days speaking to everyone I can think of to see who would be liable, as follows:
1. The NHBC guarantee ran out 3 months ago - NHBC state that due to this, even though the installation was done wholly incorrectly that as we haven't notified them within the 10 years they are unable to assist as their cover has now finished.
2. The VERY well known company who built the house and still are still building houses, state that at the time of construction the Plumbing & Heating Contractor would have self-certificated the system as compliant under the “CORGI” scheme which they were registered. No sign off was carried out or would have been by the housing builders. To the best of their knowledge the contractor is no longer trading. They also state that they have no contract with me as I am not the original house purchaser from new and they have no knowledge of what professional maintenance the system received prior or post my purchase, or the professional inspection that may have been carried out at the time of my purchase.
3. The plumbing company who installed this has ceased trading (unsurprisingly) in 2014. I have found that they since changed named to trade as a solar power company, with the same director, phone number etc but the number doesn't work and they are a new company who has sine folded.
4. I've contacted CORGI who states that they can find no registration of the gas installation (or any of my neighbors) with them back in June 2005 when the house was built. Apparently from April 2005 this should have been registered.
5. I will be speaking to the neighbors in due course about the flue issue, as it's very likely several of them have had non-complaint installations as well.
It feels like I'm at the stage now where I need to consider whether this is worth taking to the small claims court for a 'latent defect' claim? In essence there is a 15 year time limit on a claim of that type, with it being within 3 years or finding the fault.
I'm also aware I can't claim back any solicitors fees unless my claim is over £10,000 - Which as it stands, is not at that amount at the moment. If several of the neighbors have the same issue then it will be.
I'm just after any further help or advice from anyone who may understand the legalities of my situation and can offer further advice as to if this could/should be taken to court?
As I can't claim against the plumbing company who installed the flue as they have since gone into liquidation, and the house builders are unequivocally stating that they are not liable as it was installed by a person who was certified to do so.
I will also be contacting my house insurance company on Monday to see if this is something that would be covered under my policy.
Thank you very much for any and all help!
I'm after some help / advice with an issue I have with my flue (the metal cylindrical chimney type thing that vents the clean / dirty air in and out of the boiler). Sorry in advance for the very long post!
I moved into my property just over 3 years ago. I am the second owner, and at the time of moving in it was 7 years old, with 1 previous owner from new.
Last week I had a plumber come over to fix an (unrelated) issue with my boiler, they replaced a component which then got it working again, as such I then asked for them to service my boiler as I'd never got around to having that done since I have moved in (in hindsight a very silly mistake).
The plumber serviced and cleaned the boiler, during cleaning he noticed a substantial amount of ash build up. Upon completion he attempted to fire the boiler and found that there was a delay in ignition and the appliance would not maintain, cutting out after approximately 5-10 seconds. He then opened the case to inspect the electrode and noticed the boiler stayed alight, and as such suspected a flueing problem and an inspection of the flue revealed:
· No clamp at flue outlet, sealed with duct tape only
· The flue in the loft had 2 elbows installed
· The horizontal section in loft was sloping downwards forming a natural trap in the pipework
· Flue insufficiently supported
· No collar where flue extension joined vertical roof terminal
· Equivalent length of flue was 5400mm; Manufacturer’s instructions state a maximum length of 3400 with no elbows
· No self-tapping screws in flue joints, we found them in a box in the loft
· The flue was opened for inspection at the joints and was found to be blocked by ash content at the low section of the horizontal flue, the ash content had actually corroded the internal flue and products of combustion were mixing with the fresh air supply
To fix this issue it will cost somewhere in the region of £2000 - £3,000. As the flue needs replacing and as the flue is now 10 years old it is very expensive (4 times the usual price per meter)!
Our gas to the central heating system has been turned off and we've been issued with a 'Warning Notice' as is standard when the gas appliance is listed as being 'Immediately Dangerous'.
It is evident that when it was installed the plumber who did it didn't look at the manual for the specifications as to how long the flue should be and also used gaffer tape to seal a couple of sections instead of screwing in the clamps where each section began and finished.
I'm trying to work out whom, if anyone is liable for this horrendous installation, which is very dangerous and could have lead to my partner or I being seriously hurt or killed by carbon monoxide poisoning, or potentially a fire due to the blockage.
I've spent the last 10 days speaking to everyone I can think of to see who would be liable, as follows:
1. The NHBC guarantee ran out 3 months ago - NHBC state that due to this, even though the installation was done wholly incorrectly that as we haven't notified them within the 10 years they are unable to assist as their cover has now finished.
2. The VERY well known company who built the house and still are still building houses, state that at the time of construction the Plumbing & Heating Contractor would have self-certificated the system as compliant under the “CORGI” scheme which they were registered. No sign off was carried out or would have been by the housing builders. To the best of their knowledge the contractor is no longer trading. They also state that they have no contract with me as I am not the original house purchaser from new and they have no knowledge of what professional maintenance the system received prior or post my purchase, or the professional inspection that may have been carried out at the time of my purchase.
3. The plumbing company who installed this has ceased trading (unsurprisingly) in 2014. I have found that they since changed named to trade as a solar power company, with the same director, phone number etc but the number doesn't work and they are a new company who has sine folded.
4. I've contacted CORGI who states that they can find no registration of the gas installation (or any of my neighbors) with them back in June 2005 when the house was built. Apparently from April 2005 this should have been registered.
5. I will be speaking to the neighbors in due course about the flue issue, as it's very likely several of them have had non-complaint installations as well.
It feels like I'm at the stage now where I need to consider whether this is worth taking to the small claims court for a 'latent defect' claim? In essence there is a 15 year time limit on a claim of that type, with it being within 3 years or finding the fault.
I'm also aware I can't claim back any solicitors fees unless my claim is over £10,000 - Which as it stands, is not at that amount at the moment. If several of the neighbors have the same issue then it will be.
I'm just after any further help or advice from anyone who may understand the legalities of my situation and can offer further advice as to if this could/should be taken to court?
As I can't claim against the plumbing company who installed the flue as they have since gone into liquidation, and the house builders are unequivocally stating that they are not liable as it was installed by a person who was certified to do so.
I will also be contacting my house insurance company on Monday to see if this is something that would be covered under my policy.
Thank you very much for any and all help!
0
Comments
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You have no evidence that the work you described was undertaken (or not) by the original installer. 10 years has passed since installation and any number of people (homeowners, plumbers, handymen etc) could have interfered with the system.
Your insurance wont cover this as it is poor workmanship, and not a peril which is what insurance is for.
Welcome to the world of homeownership.
I assume that you had an inspection of the gas installation as part of your dur diligence when you were negotiating to purchase the house? What did the inspe tion unearth?
Sorry but this is now down to you to sort out and pay for.Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.0 -
Boiler make & model ?I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.
You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.0 -
You have no evidence that the work you described was undertaken (or not) by the original installer. 10 years has passed since installation and any number of people (homeowners, plumbers, handymen etc) could have interfered with the system.
Your insurance wont cover this as it is poor workmanship, and not a peril which is what insurance is for.
Welcome to the world of homeownership.
I assume that you had an inspection of the gas installation as part of your dur diligence when you were negotiating to purchase the house? What did the inspe tion unearth?
Sorry but this is now down to you to sort out and pay for.
I second this and add some uncomfortable truth. OP suggests that solicitors fees have been incurred and this runs into thousands. If so, this is madness. There is no reason for these folks to be involved - they are there to relieve you of your hard earned money and lead you up the garden path. The flue could have been repaired for less than these professional fees and you would now be stress free and enjoying your home.
Sorry, but in a nutshell, sack the solicitors and get to grips with the remedial works.
Hope his helps.0 -
£3000 ... Get a second opinion? You could get a new boiler for that sort of money.0
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When buying a house caveat emptor applies. Somewhere in the homebuyers survey you had done will have been a comment about the heating installation and advice to get a specialist to look at the installation.
Did you do this?
If not you bought at risk, if you did your claim is against the expert who inspected.0 -
Start saving. Buyer beware.0
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