Tenancy In Common

cattermole

Kynthia wrote: »

You've still not confirmed whether the person who's given the advice is knowledgeable and qualified to do so. There are many implications to getting this wrong and the various options need to be fully explained to you and your parents.

For example if you don't already own a share in the property then you need to read about deprivation of assets. Do you know whether the property value will be counted while your father still lives there? Have you seen the difference in care with self-funding compared to council funded? Is interitence tax a consideration? What will be the effect of changing to TIC from JT If your dad should pass on before your mum and vis versa? Professional advice will cover many scenarios.

These are all good points advice, however if it is non residential care i.e. in the home the property does not come into the equation at all.

I too have serious doubts about the person who has advised to put the children on as "tenants in common" this is very bad advice for the future and would most certainly, should different circumstances arise i.e. residential care for either the father or mother be needed it would most definately be seen as deprivation of assets.

Holly_Kipper

Carttermise thank you so much for been so kind and understanding, we have thought about independent carers and me interviewing and sorting all the DBS checks etc, however then my Dad said he was very worried with insurance? Their tax? Etc and it would be more work?

We have had advice off a recommended financial advisor, age uk, district nurses and social services.

Holly_Kipper

P.s. No1 has advised anybody to put myself or my brother as tenants in common it was just a question from myself...? And how it works?? ...

DandelionPatrol

Holly_Kipper wrote: »

Hi,

Hope someone can give me some advice.
My Mom and Dad have been advised to complete tenancy in common on their property to avoid paying for care.
Between them they have £77k of savings in joint accounts, ISAS, bonds and shares. Averages out to around to £35k each (Dad having more). Mom is going to need care which she is going to self fund obviously been over £23k. As we have no way of getting rid of money?
Now the tenancy in common could that be ....
50% Mom & Dad
25% myself
25% Sister

Will it benefit the situation in paying for the care? And would affect my Dad in the future?

I hope I have been clear enough of the situation and would be grateful on advice
Thanks.

If it is Mom & Dad's property, why should you and your sister get a cut? It does sound like advice you would get down the pub. Certainly, you could set things up like this, but if they need care, it will bite you in the bum, because you and your sister will have to pay to the extent of your shares.

Holly_Kipper

It is not advice I have got if you read above ^^.
It is a question I am asking at that was my Mom and Dads question and yes my Mom and Dad do want us to have a cut as they have worked very hard and saved hard, where people of our society do nothing and get everything!!

cattermole

Holly_Kipper wrote: »

Carttermise thank you so much for been so kind and understanding, we have thought about independent carers and me interviewing and sorting all the DBS checks etc, however then my Dad said he was very worried with insurance? Their tax? Etc and it would be more work?

We have had advice off a recommended financial advisor, age uk, district nurses and social services.

Every authority should have a Direct Payment's Support Service (this means where they give you money from Social Services to fund the care and organise yourself including employing direct)

I can see no reason as self funders why you could not access that service for support, even if it was at a very small charge.

The Council or the Support Service should be able to process the DBS checks for you, however they are not compulsory, for example if it was someone you knew well and trusted. You cannot process a DBS as an individual it has to go through an organisation, but the whole system is geared up to doing this as explained above so nothing to worry about. You pay a small charge for processing a DBS but it is nominal.

You can get insurance which covers everything for example (not recommending as such!!) but IMO are the best FISH Insurance who specialize in insurance for employing carers and they offer an excellent service and it costs around £140 per annum.

A payroll service will be provided by your local Direct Support service and everyone has to pay for this whether they are Social Services funded or not so I am sure they would be more than happy for a relatively small amount provide a payroll service, which means they calculate the tax and NI/employers due and it is paid on your behalf by them.

The only other thing you do is for someone to agree to be the employer and that could be you, your mother or your father and register with the HMRC again it is a very straight forward process but make it absolutely clear when you phone them it is not a business and it is employing carers direct for care. They used to be a bit clueless about it, but are far more used to it these days.

You get sent an Employer Reference No. and you give this to the payroll agency and sign to say they can be the 3rd party on your behalf and they do it all for you.

All you have to do is give them the number of hours a month the carer(s) etc. have worked and they do all the rest, plus actually pay the carer's and pay any employers NI (which the payroll service will calculate) again this is easy as you can just do a direct transfer of money to the carer's account. I would strongly advise not just for now but for the future if your mother does get funded from Social Services for your parent's to set up a totally separate bank account for this purpose.

However you are still an employer or one of your parent's are so there are responsibilities attached to that, but again if you have any employment issues FISH insurance offer a 24/7 helpline for advice which as long as you follow their advice you are covered.

I would recommend asking Social Services to put you in touch with your local Direct Payments Support Service and negotiate with them for some support, if you want to go the route of employing direct.

I did it for 10 years on behalf of my daughter and employed 5/6 staff at a time, also I was a DP Support Worker as well.

Holly_Kipper

Brilliant thank you that has helped a lot!!

cattermole

One other thing, in the new Care Act, everyone regardless of being a self funder or not has the right to ask Social Services to arrange their care (so kind of fits with what I said above re the Support Service) they can charge for this but most Authorities have not yet made their minds up on it.

So might be worth finding out if your Authority is charging for that service but most certainly they should be able to put you in touch with the Support Service even if they make a small charge for the service you get because they pay the Support Service in the first place and they pay less than a couple of hundred a year per client to fund the service.

The Support Service will be able to give you Contracts of Employment although FISH provide these as well as part of the service.

It isn't actually that difficult to do your own payroll these days, its very easy with the software you can download for free from HMRC and is a cost saving, I did it for years and have several friends who still do as Carer's for their loved ones. It used to take me an hour or two a month for 5/6 carers, it's all done online with HMRC. The HMRC software does all the calculations all you do is put in the gross pay basically and then pay them every month was you have to by bank transfer the tax, ni etc. It tells you exactly what you have to pay.

You can download templates for payslips from various websites and just copy and paste them into word..

cattermole

You do have to factor in Employer's costs like holiday pay and employer's NI and also now a private pension contribution if they earn more than a certain amount per annum.

Again the Support Service should be able to help you with all of this.

Yes it's slightly more work, however you can pay the Carer better than they would get via an agency and there is complete control over the Care provided and who is employed.

Mojisola

Holly_Kipper wrote: »

P.s. No1 has advised anybody to put myself or my brother as tenants in common it was just a question from myself...? And how it works?? ...

Several of us have pointed out that this would be considered as deprivation of assets.