London Capital and Finance

billyolly

So is to pessimistic to assume bond holders will get none of there investment back

Sledger

Re Bailin post 393 and response 394
SURGE FINANCIAL LIMITED 09395654
{Edited by Forum Team}
started with 100GDP on 18 Jan 2015 , office address changed 3 times


3 July 2017 CASH in Bank 1,390, 208 coincides with {Text removed by MSE Forum Team} having main control
20 Oct 2017 statement of shares 100 GDP {Edited by Forum Team}

29 June 2018 Cash in Bank 4,625130
Nett assets 4,095209
Share Holders Funds 4,083,972

Can any body make sense of this ??? Note a big chunk was in the bank before {Text removed by MSE Forum Team} appointed director

No need to answer this one. why was the cash in bank not invested with LCF to get a much better return than sitting idle in the bank or invested in Ferraris

masonic

Jelli wrote: »

I'm just hoping that while the workings of LFC seem a little dodgy, things eventually continue to work as usual with money going back to investors not too far-off maturity. Even if the internal workings of LFC are nonsensical and space-time is warping around us.

It's hard to think they spent all of our 100m on horses and Ferraris. They're also living precariously as what if someone out of the 15,000 investors belonged to a ninja cult?

Other than the dodgy dealings of the company and numerous other companies in the web of deceit, we have identified a number of end-borrowers, who are tiny start-ups, some dormant, some carrying out very high risk activities, none with any appreciable assets. It would be very easy for them to fold to avoid repaying any money lent.

So not all of the £100m would have been spent by LCF and associated companies, some will have been squandered by their friends on things no sane person would invest their own money doing.

billyolly wrote: »

So is to pessimistic to assume bond holders will get none of there investment back

I think it would be a sensible starting point to assume bond holders will get none of their money back. They might then be pleasantly surprised to receive a few pennies in the pound a year or two down the line.

jimjames

On 13 December FCA stopped LCF promotions.

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/statements/statement-london-capital-finance-plc

Also on 13 December there was a lot of activity around companies in the LCF sphere to change company details. Coincidence?

bail-in

Did you notice any consistency, relevance, significance, hiding particular info re the activity, although all such changes would be traceable at Companies House.

DrSyn

I wonder if anyone on the BBC Money Box program reads the MSE savings posts? The LCF has managed to be a subject in today's program.

masonic

DrSyn wrote: »

I wonder if anyone on the BBC Money Box program reads the MSE savings posts? The LCF has managed to be a subject in today's program.

I doubt they were tipped off by this thread.

Some interesting speculation in the report that those with LCF ISAs may find that these investments were not ISA eligible and HMRC may get involved.

bail-in

In the loan trial run as it was called in accounting year ending 2015 for the LC&F mini-bond, a commercial loan of £200,000 was lent by LC&F at 20% interest p.a. to One Monday. {Text removed by MSE Forum Team} was a director for both. The loan was then distributed for use by other companies. This was considered by LCF and Surge Financial to be the model or trial run for the commercial lending business for the LCF mini-bond launch the following year. It looks like the directors were not hiding that process of lending and relending, or maybe they were as it took a bit of searching to find the corporate borrower, One Monday. The fact of only one customer for that financial year was pointed out as a risk factor by the accountants, {Text removed by MSE Forum Team} in the 2014-15 Annual Accounts Return by LC&F. I would imagine many companies behave like this with multiple companies with various tasks in turn involving other companies in an expanding corporate network. However, it does look dubious and hides activity, rather than in the case of LCF directly lending to the commercial borrower instead of using an intermediary. Using an intermediary company as a lender would make it more difficult to trace the loans being one step removed, but the registered charges would be applicable.

jimjames

masonic wrote: »

Some interesting speculation in the report that those with LCF ISAs may find that these investments were not ISA eligible and HMRC may get involved.

I did wonder how they were eligible for an ISA when they're not retail products. Blackmore are exactly the same with ISA offering which gives a level of respectability that they can leverage. It would be ironic if it was HMRC that end up shutting down this loophole when FCA and ASA have done nothing.

Something else that is strange is that a few of the companies have requested to be struck off the Companies House register including ones that have charges to LCF on their assets. Could this be why the FCA are taking action now?

Eg LONDON POWER MANAGEMENT LIMITED https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02504629/filing-history

They are due to be struck off on 27 January 2019 despite their accounts being overdue since June 2018. There may be valid reasons but the whole saga looks like a very big & convoluted mess.

Can you dissolve a company that has debts outstanding? Is it reliant on the lender to object which LCF might not do if they have the same directors? Maybe someone can shed some light on it?

Just read this:

So if your company is in trouble, simply move all assets to a place of safe keeping and let Companies House strike the company off. No-one is then going to ask you what happened to the assets! All debts disappear.
http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/index.php/how-you-can-legally-get-away-with-not-paying-corporation-tax/

jimjames

DrSyn wrote: »

I wonder if anyone on the BBC Money Box program reads the MSE savings posts? The LCF has managed to be a subject in today's program.

This is the link for the programme, starts around 9 mins in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0001x3k