Builder charging for travel

atprice

I've just had some work done which has taken about 3 weeks. When I got the final invoice there was an item for "Sundries" at £200. I queried it and he said it was "just an allowance for travel expenses (fuel etc)".

I've never paid a trade for travel expenses before and I think the majority wouldn't charge for them, unless they were coming from quite a way on a call out.

Would it be acceptable for me to refuse to pay it?

WannaBLoaded

I think that unless you agree a fixed price at the beginning or have a clear understanding about what the job is going to cost then you are pretty much at their disposal as far as pricing is concerned

But if you had agreed a price but set up staged payments and they have added this on at the end without ever having informed you then i would not agree to it.

I don't think it is uncommon in london for trades to charge for things like parking etc but i don't really hear of it outside of london.

Mistral001

What way was the job charged? Were there several items listed in the invoice as well as this sundries item? Or was it just one item plus sundries?

TheCyclingProgrammer

You always pay for a builders travel indirectly, but it should be factored into their costs when they quote you to do the job. I'd be surprised if I got a bill with travel costs on top of it hadn't been agreed up front.

I'm not a builder, I'm a software consultant but I incur travel costs if it work on a clients site. I would only bill for these costs if the client was quite a significant distance away (I recently travelled to Poole from Colchester for example) but normally I just factor these costs into my daily rate. I may also charge for travel costs if a client asked me to travel somewhere other than their office. But I'd never just send them a bill for my travel separately.

If this was a fixed price quote then I'd dispute any additional charges for travel. Likewise of they quoted me a day rate I would expect that to cover their travel.

atprice

Initially there was an itemised estimate for the work, which has been pretty much adhered to. The "sundries" item was on there too, but I assumed (wrongly, as it turns out) that this was for any unforeseen items that might crop up, so I didn't query it. If it had been marked as "travel expenses" rather than "sundries" on the estimate then I would have queried it before the work was agreed.

This has left me in a pickle. I'm at the end of the refurb and money is squeaky tight - £200 is not something I can just hand over without scrutinising it, but at the same time I don't want to leave him out of pocket if it's a legitimate cost.

Doozergirl

A sundry isn't unforseen work that needs carrying out.

It's for essential stuff that's sort of individually unquantifiable but adds up. I don't quote for sundries to the client but I do include an amount for them in my own workings for margins. Of course we have to account for travel somewhere.

I don't see what argument you have - it's in an estimate and it's a legitimate cost?

atprice

Doozergirl wrote: »

A sundry isn't unforseen work that needs carrying out.

It's for essential stuff that's sort of individually unquantifiable but adds up. I don't quote for sundries to the client but I do include an amount for them in my own workings for margins. Of course we have to account for travel somewhere.

I don't see what argument you have - it's in an estimate and it's a legitimate cost?

I'd agree with you if it wasn't £200 - that seems like a very chunky sum of money not to be able to be identified for what it was. Also, why is it unquantifiable?

wealdroam

atprice wrote: »

I'd agree with you if it wasn't £200 - that seems like a very chunky sum of money not to be able to be identified for what it was. Also, why is it unquantifiable?

Unquantifiable costs, i.e.sundries are things like:
. a tube of silicone sealant.
. screws used.
. petrol for the cement mixer.
. a hacksaw blade.

...and the list goes on.

Unless you are prepared to pay for:
. a whole tube of sealant when only a quarter of the tube was used.
. 200 screws when only 20 were used.
. five litres of petrol when less than one litre was used.
.etc. etc.

Someone has to pay for the travel and servicing of the van. Perhaps the servicing cost should fall upon the unlucky customer whose job is being worked upon when the service is due?

Clearly it is only reasonable to recover these costs by spreading them across all customers either by including a sundries line on the invoice or hiding them elsewhere.

Mistral001

I would have thought fuel for the van was an overhead rather than a sundry and should be included in the hourly rate. That's unless there was something peculiar to this job that required a lot of travel.

WannaBLoaded

Where we leave leeway in a price we tell people 'work on 10,000 but allow an extra 500' if there is something that we feel may be more difficult than it looks.

We price fixed so that the customer knows what the're paying irrespective of how many tubes of silicon etc as long as our original quote is competitive the customer is getting a good deal either way and that's probably all most people care about, getting what they wanted done within a budget they feel comfortable spending.

It all depends on how your original verbal and written quote were geared up to be honest, if you were a fixed price then this addition is cheeky and probably not legal because they should tell you before they start work so that you can agree or decline.

WannaBLoaded

atprice wrote: »

I'd agree with you if it wasn't £200 - that seems like a very chunky sum of money not to be able to be identified for what it was. Also, why is it unquantifiable?

Depends how much and what sort of work you had done really? If it was a full refurb then i would say that is pretty low. It isn't unusual for people to be 500 quid out or more.