Competition for engineers is at all time high

gadgetmind

chucknorris wrote: »

But I accept at graduate entry it might be a problem if it is putting off entrants into the profession.

Those who bother their heads with such subjective trivia as "social standing" probably won't make good engineers.

As for starting salaries, what's rubbish and what isn't? (Honest question.)

As for Doctors, daughter is training to be one. Yes, nice money, even if they moan about it, but I earn more as an engineering manager than almost any consultant outside of Harley St. And I get to dress in jeans rather than a suit.

cells

We don't need a lot of engineers and we train far too many often in very good universities but since the pay is poor and the jobs scarce they tend to go into the finance and banking industry.

I think roughly 60% of my whole university (excluding the medical department) ended up in the city or that was what we were being told at the time.

princeofpounds

If someone is motivated by pay, I would say that you'll never make that much money by merely being a professional.

True. But within that salaried professional category there is still a big difference between professions with mediocre salaries and good salaries. Even if it's not about earning the big bucks, it is often more important not to earn peanuts at least.


The cost of housing in this country has made that choice even more stark for anyone coming out of university from the 2000s onwards. If you want to live in an ok area, in an ok house, and start small family by the time you are 30ish, off your own back, you unfortunately can't get there by being average any more.

gadgetmind

cells wrote: »

since the pay is poor and the jobs scarce they tend to go into the finance and banking industry.

"Scarce" really doesn't describe the situation from an employer's POV as we seem to be fighting for the good people. Interestingly, we don't find ourselves fighting finance and banking, so maybe they take what's left?

And what does "pay is poor" mean? Can you quantify?

kabayiri

gadgetmind wrote: »

Those who bother their heads with such subjective trivia as "social standing" probably won't make good engineers.
...

I'm not so sure it's irrelevant. It's all about marketing your profession.

For example, I think over recent decades the standing of a teacher has improved. A good assistant headteacher here can earn £70K, which when coupled with a decent pension, is a good income IMO.

chucknorris

princeofpounds wrote: »

True. But within that salaried professional category there is still a big difference between professions with mediocre salaries and good salaries. Even if it's not about earning the big bucks, it is often more important not to earn peanuts at least.


The cost of housing in this country has made that choice even more stark for anyone coming out of university from the 2000s onwards. If you want to live in an ok area, in an ok house, and start small family by the time you are 30ish, off your own back, you unfortunately can't get there by being average any more.

At our university we have a common pathway first year, so although a student registers on a particular course (e.g quantity surveying, building surveying, building engineering or construction management), they can switch after the first year to another course.

In the first year a common question is, 'what pathway leads to the highest salary'? I always answer that they should discover what they 'WANT' to do, even if on the face of it it pays less, if they like it, they are far more likely to rise to the top and earn more than the average. Of course I add, that the real money is earned working for yourself (which of course it is).

chucknorris

gadgetmind wrote: »

Those who bother their heads with such subjective trivia as "social standing" probably won't make good engineers.

As for starting salaries, what's rubbish and what isn't? (Honest question.)

As for Doctors, daughter is training to be one. Yes, nice money, even if they moan about it, but I earn more as an engineering manager than almost any consultant outside of Harley St. And I get to dress in jeans rather than a suit.

We are singing from the same hymn sheet, our share dividends pay more or less the average professional salary, and they are dwarfed by our rental income. I stopped wearing suits (and only wore a tie in exceptional circumstances) in the latter years of my industry career, I reached a stage where I thought 'I don't need to obey their rules/convention any more', and they accepted it.

cepheus

princeofpounds wrote: »

The UK is quite a mixed bag for engineers. We have a quite a decent specialist technology scene, good engineering schools, but actually the position of engineers in society is pretty rubbish.


Most people think that an engineer is someone that comes to fix your boiler, sadly. In the US and in continental Europe, it's a protected term. In France and Germany you can even get a title in front of your name (e.g. Ing. Fred Bloggs) which is seen as equivalent to a doctor in status (and indeed the training and work experience to become a chartered engineer is of similar length - to get a DEng actually takes years longer).

And the starting salaries are generally rubbish, unless you go into oil (which probably isn't hiring these days) or chemical (given so few people want to do it)

Edit to add: That's why half the good engineers disappear to go work in finance or tech or something.

I agree, CEng is not highly regarded in the UK. However, when getting letters from Germany I get Dr. in front of my name even through my highest academic qualification is MSc.

BobQ

cepheus wrote: »

I agree, CEng is not highly regarded in the UK. However, when getting letters from Germany I get Dr. in front of my name even through my highest academic qualification is MSc.

I do not fully understand the process, but the term Drs in the Netherlands was an abbreviation for "Doctorandus" which did equate to a Masters degree.

MrRee_2

I've been interviewing for Engineers for a long time now - we are desperate.

Our standards are particularly high, they must be considering what we build .... not many young Engineers live up to the Engineers of the 1950's - the Education system has gone the way of other things, if it can be done on a computer then it can be built (sometimes it can't!).

Hands on basic knowledge isn't there with Graduates.

The real quality Engineers are those with a HND and a high rated apprenticeship behind them.

We have an excellent Apprentice School ......

Wages start at around £35k to £40k which is one of the reasons we struggle to recruit I guess? But it does quickly rise to a more acceptable £70k ..... and then onwards.