Competition for engineers is at all time high

gadgetmind

This is a US-centric article, but we seem exactly the same in the UK and elsewhere.

http://www.bidnessetc.com/business/apple-electric-car-dream-drives-mission-motors-to-the-ground/

michaels

Don't worry, for every graduate engineer we are short we have a hundred media studies graduates to write a blog about it.

Conrad

I know the answer, lets denude the third world of their vital skills instead of training up British people. Damned those developing nations, us greedy Brits need their best and brightest.


As Hamish always says, there's no way we can possibly manage things like this or plan a pensions system, all we can do is nick the developing worlds nurses to infinity. GDP and expansion is all that matters!

gadgetmind

It's difficult. We don't train enough, and neither does the US, but Greece and Spain seem to train more than they currently need. I'd be delighted to see more British people coming through, but see few signs of it.

princeofpounds

The UK is quite a mixed bag for engineers. We have a quite a decent specialist technology scene, good engineering schools, but actually the position of engineers in society is pretty rubbish.


Most people think that an engineer is someone that comes to fix your boiler, sadly. In the US and in continental Europe, it's a protected term. In France and Germany you can even get a title in front of your name (e.g. Ing. Fred Bloggs) which is seen as equivalent to a doctor in status (and indeed the training and work experience to become a chartered engineer is of similar length - to get a DEng actually takes years longer).


And the starting salaries are generally rubbish, unless you go into oil (which probably isn't hiring these days) or chemical (given so few people want to do it)


Edit to add: That's why half the good engineers disappear to go work in finance or tech or something.

kabayiri

princeofpounds wrote: »

The UK is quite a mixed bag for engineers. We have a quite a decent specialist technology scene, good engineering schools, but actually the position of engineers in society is pretty rubbish.

...

Indeed. A sibling of mine was well suited to do an engineering degree. A company was even willing to sponsor her, such was the lack of female engineers at the time.

She chose to do medicine. It was a good call : doctors and consultants have a higher social standing.

She then chose to use her medical qualifications to work abroad. Another good call. It seems some countries value medical staff even more than we do.

This issue is not a new thing. Sir Monty Finniston headed up an enquiry. In 1979 the committee delivered the "Finniston Report", which addressed the concerns that engineering was of relatively low status in the UK.

Some Universities took on the recommendations, but not all. Nothing much changed.

We prefer financiers and legal professions in the UK.

chucknorris

princeofpounds wrote: »

The UK is quite a mixed bag for engineers. We have a quite a decent specialist technology scene, good engineering schools, but actually the position of engineers in society is pretty rubbish.


Most people think that an engineer is someone that comes to fix your boiler, sadly. In the US and in continental Europe, it's a protected term. In France and Germany you can even get a title in front of your name (e.g. Ing. Fred Bloggs) which is seen as equivalent to a doctor in status (and indeed the training and work experience to become a chartered engineer is of similar length - to get a DEng actually takes years longer).


And the starting salaries are generally rubbish, unless you go into oil (which probably isn't hiring these days) or chemical (given so few people want to do it)


Edit to add: That's why half the good engineers disappear to go work in finance or tech or something.

Personally I really don't care what others think of me, my profession or where they judge my social standing to be (to a degree), I think it is much more important what I think and that I'm happy about it. If someone else has a problem with it, that's their problem, not mine. But I accept at graduate entry it might be a problem if it is putting off entrants into the profession.

As far as I'm concerned there isn't anything wrong with being an engineer (I'm not one by the way, I'm a chartered (quantity) surveyor). I don't tend to judge people by their profession, I've encountered enough smart people and complete idiots in most of the professions to realise that belonging to a particular profession doesn't tell you that much about someone.

CLAPTON

chucknorris wrote: »

Personally I really don't care what others think of me, my profession or where they judge my social standing to be (to a degree), I think it is much more important what I think and that I'm happy about it. If someone else has a problem with it, that's their problem, not mine.

As far as I'm concerned there isn't anything wrong with being an engineer (I'm not one by the way, I'm a chartered (quantity) surveyor). I don't tend to judge people by their profession, I've encountered enough smart people and complete idiots in most of the professions to realise that belonging to a particular profession doesn't tell you that much about someone.

the general status and regard of a profession, is however a factor in how young people select what to study at Uni or their career choice.

chucknorris

CLAPTON wrote: »

the general status and regard of a profession, is however a factor in how young people select what to study at Uni or their career choice.

That is why I added this (at the same time that you were posting):

But I accept at graduate entry it might be a problem if it is putting off entrants into the profession.

princeofpounds

Personally I really don't care what others think of me, my profession or where they judge my social standing to be (to a degree), I think it is much more important what I think and that I'm happy about it. If someone else has a problem with it, that's their problem, not mine. But I accept at graduate entry it might be a problem if it is putting off entrants into the profession.

That's all to the good.


But actually I think social issues like status actually has practical implications, beyond mere perception.


Pay, for instance, is very often related much more to status than it is to productivity or merit. That's true of many professions. I think the low pay of engineers is often quite tied into status rather than just being a symptom of demand and supply.

chucknorris

princeofpounds wrote: »

That's all to the good.


But actually I think social issues like status actually has practical implications, beyond mere perception.


Pay, for instance, is very often related much more to status than it is to productivity or merit. That's true of many professions. I think the low pay of engineers is often quite tied into status rather than just being a symptom of demand and supply.

If someone is motivated by pay, I would say that you'll never make that much money by merely being a professional. I made far more money from my 'spare time' businesses than I ever did as a chartered surveyor. For a lot of the time my salary was my third string income, that realisation of course led me to eventually retire (in my early 40's, although I did return to work in my 50's as a university lecturer, just to satisfy a curiosity about it).