why are tradesman bad?

zax47

somethingcorporate wrote: »

I use family and family recommended now after too many awful experiences.

We were looking for a loft conversion and had 4 companies round to quote, 1 of which didn't turn up or return the calls. Despite telling them we have the money ready and waiting only 1 bothered to get back to us with a written quote for £50k+ worth of work. It's like they actually don't NEED thework....?

Corrected that for you. So they come along, give you a quote but say, "sorry can't start till next July.." Your response? I agree it's rude not to communicate and say this, I do.

Good generally=busy, but customers want you to quote Friday & start Monday. Not surprisingly, usually it's only the crap ones that will be sat desperately waiting for your call...

zax47

ohreally wrote: »

I don't know any tradesmen who will take on domestic work, its just not worth the hassle.

3 words can explain this.

Customer's unrealistic expectations. Quote today, start tomorrow, finish yesterday, make no mess, charge peanuts.

:rotfl:

victor2

It works both ways. Tradesmen deserve as much respect as they give their customers. We know the type of tea "our" builder drinks, he understands we want any inconvenience to be kept to a minimum. We put the kettle on for 8am because we know that's the time he starts. If the wife has been baking, he (and any colleagues) gets a slice of cake with his tea. When our house, along with most surrounding ones, was damaged by a freak hailstorm, he came to us the same day with tarpaulin to cover the roof damage, and subsequently quoted for repairs, which our insurers accepted without hesitation and he got the job. Not a big job by his standards, but he looked after his existing clients and we know he turned down similar requests from other people he didn't already know.

zax47

victor2 wrote: »

It works both ways. Tradesmen deserve as much respect as they give their customers. We know the type of tea "our" builder drinks, he understands we want any inconvenience to be kept to a minimum. We put the kettle on for 8am because we know that's the time he starts. If the wife has been baking, he (and any colleagues) gets a slice of cake with his tea. When our house, along with most surrounding ones, was damaged by a freak hailstorm, he came to us the same day with tarpaulin to cover the roof damage, and subsequently quoted for repairs, which our insurers accepted without hesitation and he got the job. Not a big job by his standards, but he looked after his existing clients and we know he turned down similar requests from other people he didn't already know.

That's how it should be, mutual understanding & respect, as I said in post #28;

"Respect your customers & do a good, tidy, safe job, it keeps you in business. 90% of my work is from word of mouth recommendation and, emergencies apart, I'm stacked up to Xmas now. As someone said earlier - if he can come tomorrow then he isn't busy. If he isn't busy then maybe you need to consider why not....

"Cheap" "good"& "quick" are generally mutually exclusive concepts when it comes to trades. If you want a decent job & tradesperson then getting one of those 3 often precludes the other two. {Good generally doesn't mean quick or cheap}"

Too many customers just want "now & cheap", which usually equates to poor everything - work, communication & timekeeping. Then they moan - tough! You got what you asked for.....

bundly

balletshoes wrote: »

every time i need a tradesman, I get personal recommendations from friends/colleagues, I check out local business cards etc, and I usually start off with a list of about 10 numbers to call.

So I call them, a couple of them the phone just rings and rings, no pick-up, no answermachine.

half a dozen more, phone switches to answermachine, 6 messages left, maybe one will call me back to discuss what i want done.

I speak to 2 actual human beings when I call, one arranges a time and date to come and see what can be done/quote for the work - doesn't turn up and doesn't call.

One does actually turn up when he says he will, and gives a quote for the work and a timescale when he can come back and do the job - so invariably he gets the job, unless I want to go trawling around for another half dozen numbers and start the whole rigmarole again.

It just seems like really bad business to me, not even bothering to reply to a potential customer?

OH MY GOD! Ballet, this is EXACTLY what happens to me, too. It's kinda comforting to know I am not the only one.

I need a new CH boiler. I went on to a site called RatedPeople, where you can post your "job" and they send it out to loads of tradesmen who then contact you direct. A few days later I got an email saying they had sent my job to 168 people and all of them had declined it!

They say get three quotes for every job? Impossible to find three people who will actually answer the phone, make an appointment and turn up.

Had an electrician round the other day. He advertises in the local paper, "professionally qualified electrician trading 25 years." When he arrived I asked him for his card and he said he'd never had any made up. He looked at the job and then asked me for a stepladder so he could do the work. No mention of price. So I asked him how much is this going to cost and he replied "not much" and looked back at the job. I had to press him several times to get a price out of him. He said "£25" so I said go ahead. Job took 10 minutes, and he came and asked me for £35. No reason for the additional £10. I asked him for an invoice (for taxman) and he said he'd never made any invoices in his life. I insisted, and he told me to write one myself and he'd just sign it. And so I did.

After he'd gone I had to carry the stepladder back upstairs myself from where he'd left it, and sweep up the rubble he'd left.

Huh.

bundly

zax47 wrote: »

3 words can explain this.

Customer's unrealistic expectations. Quote today, start tomorrow, finish yesterday, make no mess, charge peanuts.

This is RUBBISH. As Ballet said, 90% of the time one cannot even get through to them on the phone.

Or are you saying they are now SO prejudiced against ALL customers that they won't even answer the phone?

What a way to do business!

leveller2911

pendragon_arther wrote: »

It's a British problem. Poles are the best in my experience.

Not from my experience, there are plenty of lazy,bone idle Eastern European workers. I have worked with plenty and the Germans tend to be excellant tradesmen as do the Scandinavians but the Eastern European builders are poor. They turn up on time,sometimes early but spend ages talking,smoking and drinking coffee. The quality of workmanship is dire, I'm sure there are good Polish,Lithuanian Carpenters but thye must all be back at home because all I see are guys turning up with a cordless kit,nail pouch and no skill or actual qualifications. I've been in the trade for 30yrs and I'm still learning but many of them don't have the basic skill or knowledge.

The thing is the UK public think they are great because they are cheap, finish on time etc but they don't see the quality of the workmanship and 5-10 years down the line they will see probelms arising form poor installations/workmanship. I would much rather finish a day or two late but having done the job properly in the first place.

Common things I see are no DPM under frames, no lead trays,no priming/sealing end grain of timber, poor joints filled with caulking, no windbracing in truss roofs etc etc etc ,I could go on for ages. This is not exclusive to EU builders but I'm yet to see a good EU "tradesman" but I see good UK tradesmen on a daily basis.

leveller2911

victor2 wrote: »

It works both ways. Tradesmen deserve as much respect as they give their customers. We know the type of tea "our" builder drinks, he understands we want any inconvenience to be kept to a minimum. We put the kettle on for 8am because we know that's the time he starts. If the wife has been baking, he (and any colleagues) gets a slice of cake with his tea. When our house, along with most surrounding ones, was damaged by a freak hailstorm, he came to us the same day with tarpaulin to cover the roof damage, and subsequently quoted for repairs, which our insurers accepted without hesitation and he got the job. Not a big job by his standards, but he looked after his existing clients and we know he turned down similar requests from other people he didn't already know.

I totally agree with you ,it works both ways but I never assume I will get a cuppa or a slice of cake but I can tell you that I will always go an extra mile for a nice client so if I'm doing the work and they ask "Oh while your here could you .........?" I will put myself out and often don't charge anything because I see the bigger picture. If I do a good job, plenty of dustsheets,hoover up afterwards etc I may well get further work in the future.

The client gets a trustworthy tradesmen who they can rely on I get a client who I know will pay me and I can rely on.

RE: "Feak hail storm" was that on the Sussex coast a few years ago?. We had one then and a caravan in the yard where my workshop is looked like it had been blasted with a shotgun and so did the Toyota Land cruiser next to it..

victor2

leveller2911 wrote: »

The client gets a trustworthy tradesmen who they can rely on I get a client who I know will pay me and I can rely on.

RE: "Feak hail storm" was that on the Sussex coast a few years ago?. We had one then and a caravan in the yard where my workshop is looked like it had been blasted with a shotgun and so did the Toyota Land cruiser next to it..

Hopefully that's how our builder sees us. Unfortunately for us he's heading towards retirement now - we could have sent so much work his way if he wasn't!

The hail storm was in the Midlands just over 3 years ago. Lots of conservatories and greenhouses destroyed. We got off lightly, only needing 20+ roof tiles, a new window and a few other bits and pieces...

leveller2911

victor2 wrote: »

Hopefully that's how our builder sees us. Unfortunately for us he's heading towards retirement now - we could have sent so much work his way if he wasn't!

The hail storm was in the Midlands just over 3 years ago. Lots of conservatories and greenhouses destroyed. We got off lightly, only needing 20+ roof tiles, a new window and a few other bits and pieces...

You highlight the real issue here and that is the lack of training. The skilled guys who are now retiring haven't had the chance to pass on their skills to the next generation.

Don't believe any of the hype by the current or previous Labour government that they have increased apprenticeships. They haven't really ,all they have done is added a few more places to an already dire training scheme and its all smoke and mirrors .

They cut the days a week the trainees attend college to 2 or 3 rather than 5 days a week and the on site training where they would work for a company to gain experience doesn't work because many of the small/medium sized businesses went but in the 90's and the increase of sole traders/partnerships can't take up the slack because of the added costs of training. There are far fewer companies out there to help train these young people.

The skill set of the UK construction workforce is getting worse and immigrant labour is no better, its actually making it worse because it means the Government doesn't need to sort out the problem , they just import more low skilled workers so the fact is in the future the quality of housebuilding will fall when we should be seeing it rise. If we were importing good,highly skilled workers I would be all for it but we are not and our young people have been ignored by successive governments...

Bring back real apprenticships of 3-5yrs and not these 12 month coarses. A person can walk into a college and within a few weeks be qualified in a number of jobs. Its just rediculous.

I do appologise for getting political but I'm passionate about the industry and want to see then next generation come through with the skills needed to compete but they are being badly let down by our politicians.