Company trading after liquidation

holdon

Have you seen the notice of impending Liquidation.
Has a Liquidator been appointed. (if so)
Are you a registered Creditor
Who is Liquidator.

choodalls

I did not pursue at the time when I was trying to get some communication from the "original" company as the situation was far from clear and the amount I felt was one I could bear to lose.
The things that do concern me are that the same main Director (as named already) can happily take peoples money from an online business, wind up the parent limited company [having carried on taking money for at least one month after it was clear they were not going to be fulfilling orders] and can then 10 months later come back with a new parent company and the same online trading name and style as before and have the cheek ,not only to be maintaining the original customer database complete with all order and personal details, but to then be mail shooting the customer database announcing the 'new' Commerce website.
Lessons learnt by me: (1) it might be wise for me to obtain a credit card to use for such transactions; (2) Act quicker; (3) favour traders using payment portals that provide better customer backup.
I also hope that anyone wondering about the honesty of this particular online company will google them and find this thread before they decide to proceed with their order.

Castle

FYI-Information held at Companies House on Cartwright Timber Fixings Ltd
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04716281/filing-history

arcon5

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

But there is no document lodged at Companies House from the liquidators advising that they have authorised the sale of the trading name / business / client list to this new company.

So there may well be a breach of the DPA in the new company having client details from the old company, if there has been no formal documented transfer of that customer database.

You don't know how or when the sale of any assets took place so you quite simply cannot comment on the legitimacy of the sale.
We haven't seen receipts for the purchase of stock either, yet we're not suggesting they are stolen.

We don't know what paperwork is present in the background so suggesting they may have breached DPA is based on nothing.

wealdroam

choodalls wrote: »

Lessons learnt by me: (1) it might be wise for me to obtain a credit card to use for such transactions; (2) Act quicker; (3) favour traders using payment portals that provide better customer backup.

Choodalls, I get the impression that this may not have been a consumer purchase.

If you were acting as a business - "as an honest sole trader myself" - then Section 75 of The Consumer Credit Act would not have been applicable even if you had placed the order with a credit card.

Furthermore, as the order value was 'only' £38, Section 75 would not help even if it were a consumer purchase, and you would still be reliant on the card issuer's chargeback process.

Yes of course get a credit card. Even if you pay it off in full each month, it certainly does offer a lot more protection than a debit card.

redmalc

Nonsense, the liquidator has to get as much from the companies assets as possible. The first thing they do is try and sell as a going concern then work their way down to liquidation. In liquidation everything is sold including the trading name if anyone wants to buy it. There is nothing wrong here, the intangible assets are disposed off by the liquidator, no one is required to buy them just because they bought the trading name.


I always thought the trading name is an intangible asset,

antrobus

choodalls wrote: »

...I used their "Contact Us" section and asked them if they would now refund me or fulfill my long lost order. I got this reply from 'Chris' [from the same email address as Chris Cartwright had used in dealings with me before]:....

As far as I can see the major shareholder in Cartwright Timber Fixings Ltd (the previous owners of the website) was one Christopher William Cartwright, and the major shareholder in Fixings And Fastenings Ltd (the current owners of the website) is a certain Christopher William Cartwright.

I do not believe this to be a coincidence. But your problem would be that Fixings And Fastenings Ltd is in no way liable for the debts of Cartwright Timber Fixings Ltd, irrespective of the fact that both companies were controlled by the same person, and engaged in the same business.

zax47

antrobus wrote: »

As far as I can see the major shareholder in Cartwright Timber Fixings Ltd (the previous owners of the website) was one Christopher William Cartwright, and the major shareholder in Fixings And Fastenings Ltd (the current owners of the website) is a certain Christopher William Cartwright.

I do not believe this to be a coincidence. But your problem would be that Fixings And Fastenings Ltd is in no way liable for the debts of Cartwright Timber Fixings Ltd, irrespective of the fact that both companies were controlled by the same person, and engaged in the same business.

Indeed, classic "phoenix" company behaviour. Liquidate a failing/failed Ltd company, form a new one (usually adding (UK) or the year {2015 for example} into the new name otherwise its exactly the same), and buy the assets from the liquidator. The debts belong to the old company, not the new one. The rules/system allows it, been happening forever and certainly not a new thing or confined to online companies.

If you can prove the directors of the old company broke the rules by perhaps trading insolvently or similar then the limited liability status might be extended to make them personally liable for the companies debts. This does happen, and directors do get "banned" but not often enough to dissaude those who do this, and do it regularly.

In summary OP it's nothing new. Having had a quick look through the docs I'm not sure there's anything much especially untoward in this case. He shoved in nearly £60K to keep it going, and the two big creditors at the end were him and the bank - each for a similar amount.