* What can a consumer sue a giant energy company for? *

hybernia

My in-laws, who are both pensioners,are being driven to distraction by one of the "Big 6" energy companies.

They switched from that particular supplier under the terms of the (disastrous!) MSE Energy Club promotion last March, but Sainsburys Energy (British Gas in disguise) completely mucked up the switch and gave my IL's existing supplier a final gas meter reading which was far higher than the actual reading my ILs had given to Sainsburys/ British Gas. As a result, ILs received a final bill from their then supplier which was totally wrong.

ILs rang their supplier and told them the bill was based on misinformation from Sainsburys / British Gas: the meter reading bore no relation to the one taken by themselves. The supplier's CS representative called up their account on screen and said words to the effect "we have a logarithm (?) which helps us see if a customer's energy usage fits an existing pattern. Looking at your account, it's obvious that the meter reading we've received is completely wrong. We will now suspend this bill and get onto your new supplier. Don't worry about anything. When this is sorted out, we will issue you with a new bill."

That conversation occurred at the end of March. Not a word was heard from the former supplier until the end of August when it sent a Final Demand by post and email for the "unpaid bill". It threatened to take action to impair the ILs credit record if payment wasn't made immediately.

ILs decided never to have a phone conversation with the supplier again, so a series of (what turned out to be) completely pointless emails followed between them and the supplier's Customer Service department. (ILs have kept a complete record of all communications.)

Initially, CS took no notice of anything that ILs said, just kept repeating that the bill must be paid or else. Eventually, a CS rep said the matter would be investigated (presumably, now for the second time) by the billing department and a new bill issued.

Shortly after that, another CS rep said that he (not the billing department) had "looked into this and I can confirm that the agreed amount is owing". This was very obviously a deliberate fobbing off, actually, more like a downright lie: no "agreement" existed, so there was nothing to "confirm".

My ILs asked for the matter to be referred to a senior level because they were tired of being treated like this: every CS reply they received began with a meaningless apology and ended with the threat of wrecking the ILs credit record if they didn't pay up..

But nothing further was heard from the supplier. Instead, the ILs received a letter from a debt collection agency. It said an even greater amount of money must now be paid, but provided no details. ILs wrote back (they're not silly enough to enter into phone conversations with a debt collector) and asked for details of the claim. The debt collector responded with a copy of an electricity bill that was one-third of the amount claimed. ILs wrote back saying where was the rest of the evidence?

Debt collector has now responded with a break down of the claim into gas, electricity and 'collection charge'. . . but includes no information about how the supplier is justifying the amount it says is owed. No meter readings mentioned. No quantity of gas / electricity used mentioned. Instead, it's this-is-what-we-say-you-owe-us -so-pay-it-now-or-else.

ILs have had enough. They've given the supplier more than enough information to demonstrate that they can prove they don't owe the amount of money being claimed but the supplier has refused to take a scrap of notice. If there was a guarantee that this particular supplier would actually go to a small claims court, my ILs would be more than happy to deal with that AND counter-claim for all the time they've had to waste and the stress they have experienced.

But they've heard that this supplier would rather not go to court and that it instead prefers to damage an alleged debtor's credit record, because it doesn't actually have to prove anything to the credit rating agencies. I have no idea if this is true or not.

My ILs are therefore wondering what options would be open to them to take the supplier to court instead so as to claim compensation for the way they've been treated. They have been told by CAB that they can represent themselves in person, but the CAB lady they spoke to didn't seem to know on just what legal basis the action could be brought.

But surely there has to be some way an ordinary honest consumer in this country can fight back against energy giants and make them pay for the stress (and distress) they seem to cause so often to so many?? My ILs are adamant that as not the slightest goodwill has been shown to them in all their dealings with this supplier, they are not going to let it get away with pretending to make a "goodwill" payment at the end of this affair.

Advice appreciated. Thank you.

Shrimply

But presumably the new supplier started charging from the same reading. So the chances are if they had just paid in the long run they wouldn't be that out of pocket. I think really you should have raised the issue with the new supplier as soon as you realised the error.

You need to pay someone for the energy used, and I think the mistake here was not chasing the company who had made the error, at least that's what it sounds like.

If the initial reading and final reading from the two suppliers don't match up then getting money back should be much easier.

naedanger

hybernia wrote: »

My in-laws, who are both pensioners,are being driven to distraction by one of the "Big 6" energy companies.

They switched from that particular supplier under the terms of the (disastrous!) MSE Energy Club promotion last March, but Sainsburys Energy (British Gas in disguise) completely mucked up the switch and gave my IL's existing supplier a final gas meter reading which was far higher than the actual reading my ILs had given to Sainsburys/ British Gas. As a result, ILs received a final bill from their then supplier which was totally wrong.

ILs rang their supplier and told them the bill was based on misinformation from Sainsburys / British Gas: the meter reading bore no relation to the one taken by themselves. The supplier's CS representative called up their account on screen and said words to the effect "we have a logarithm (?) which helps us see if a customer's energy usage fits an existing pattern. Looking at your account, it's obvious that the meter reading we've received is completely wrong. We will now suspend this bill and get onto your new supplier. Don't worry about anything. When this is sorted out, we will issue you with a new bill."

That conversation occurred at the end of March. Not a word was heard from the former supplier until the end of August when it sent a Final Demand by post and email for the "unpaid bill". It threatened to take action to impair the ILs credit record if payment wasn't made immediately.

ILs decided never to have a phone conversation with the supplier again, so a series of (what turned out to be) completely pointless emails followed between them and the supplier's Customer Service department. (ILs have kept a complete record of all communications.)

Initially, CS took no notice of anything that ILs said, just kept repeating that the bill must be paid or else. Eventually, a CS rep said the matter would be investigated (presumably, now for the second time) by the billing department and a new bill issued.

Shortly after that, another CS rep said that he (not the billing department) had "looked into this and I can confirm that the agreed amount is owing". This was very obviously a deliberate fobbing off, actually, more like a downright lie: no "agreement" existed, so there was nothing to "confirm".

My ILs asked for the matter to be referred to a senior level because they were tired of being treated like this: every CS reply they received began with a meaningless apology and ended with the threat of wrecking the ILs credit record if they didn't pay up..

But nothing further was heard from the supplier. Instead, the ILs received a letter from a debt collection agency. It said an even greater amount of money must now be paid, but provided no details. ILs wrote back (they're not silly enough to enter into phone conversations with a debt collector) and asked for details of the claim. The debt collector responded with a copy of an electricity bill that was one-third of the amount claimed. ILs wrote back saying where was the rest of the evidence?

Debt collector has now responded with a break down of the claim into gas, electricity and 'collection charge'. . . but includes no information about how the supplier is justifying the amount it says is owed. No meter readings mentioned. No quantity of gas / electricity used mentioned. Instead, it's this-is-what-we-say-you-owe-us -so-pay-it-now-or-else.

ILs have had enough. They've given the supplier more than enough information to demonstrate that they can prove they don't owe the amount of money being claimed but the supplier has refused to take a scrap of notice. If there was a guarantee that this particular supplier would actually go to a small claims court, my ILs would be more than happy to deal with that AND counter-claim for all the time they've had to waste and the stress they have experienced.

But they've heard that this supplier would rather not go to court and that it instead prefers to damage an alleged debtor's credit record, because it doesn't actually have to prove anything to the credit rating agencies. I have no idea if this is true or not.

My ILs are therefore wondering what options would be open to them to take the supplier to court instead so as to claim compensation for the way they've been treated. They have been told by CAB that they can represent themselves in person, but the CAB lady they spoke to didn't seem to know on just what legal basis the action could be brought.

But surely there has to be some way an ordinary honest consumer in this country can fight back against energy giants and make them pay for the stress (and distress) they seem to cause so often to so many?? My ILs are adamant that as not the slightest goodwill has been shown to them in all their dealings with this supplier, they are not going to let it get away with pretending to make a "goodwill" payment at the end of this affair.

Advice appreciated. Thank you.

Assuming your in laws have an account with the supplier they wish to take to court they should check its terms and conditions and determine which conditions the supplier has failed to honour. Assuming the supplier has broken some of the terms and conditions then your in laws could sue them for breach of contract to recover any losses that have arisen from any breach.

You could also try to claim for any consequent stress caused but I think this will be difficult because "damages for inconvenience and anxiety would only arise in very exceptional cases".

http://www.proneg.co.uk/news-articles/claiming-compensation-distress-inconvenience.html

undaunted

Harrassment perhaps. It can be done, eg

http://www.franklins-sols.co.uk/news/art/1041/northampton-man-takes-npower-to-court-wins.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2710809/David-beats-Goliath-Man-wins-3-000-payout-energy-giant-wouldn-t-stop-harassing-bills-didn-t-owe.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/7914426/British-Gas-customer-wins-2000-payment-for-wasted-time.html

hybernia

Thanks for the help and advice received, the kindness is appreciated. The provided links were very interesting to read and I am grateful for them as this is all a bit beyond me.

Just to summarise, the ILs were told by the supplier who issued them with their bill that the bill was obviously in error and because of that was being "suspended". ILs were told to do nothing at all until the supplier came back with a revised bill. Supplier never came back with anything except a Final Demand for the same amount 3 months later and the start of a succession of threats to pay up or else.

ILs are not trying to claim money back. They were shrewd enough to cancel their monthly DD at the time of the switch. They had read enough stories about energy companies owing £000s to departed customers and had no wish to be amongst them. They told the supplier's representative that they would pay what they owed when the supplier produced a bill that fitted the facts. The supplier has shown no interest in the facts, only in harrassing them for money that proveably isn't owed.

I will be seeing them on Sunday so will have a chat and update them on the help received from here. Sincere thsanks again, there is food for thought aplenty here.

naedanger

hybernia wrote: »

Thanks for the help and advice received, the kindness is appreciated. The provided links were very interesting to read and I am grateful for them as this is all a bit beyond me.

Just to summarise, the ILs were told by the supplier who issued them with their bill that the bill was obviously in error and because of that was being "suspended". ILs were told to do nothing at all until the supplier came back with a revised bill. Supplier never came back with anything except a Final Demand for the same amount 3 months later and the start of a succession of threats to pay up or else.

ILs are not trying to claim money back. They were shrewd enough to cancel their monthly DD at the time of the switch. They had read enough stories about energy companies owing £000s to departed customers and had no wish to be amongst them. They told the supplier's representative that they would pay what they owed when the supplier produced a bill that fitted the facts. The supplier has shown no interest in the facts, only in harrassing them for money that proveably isn't owed.

I will be seeing them on Sunday so will have a chat and update them on the help received from here. Sincere thsanks again, there is food for thought aplenty here.

You could look on the supplier's website for a copy of their complaint procedure. Then ask your in laws to follow it. If after 8 weeks the matter is not resolved to their satisfaction then they will be able to take it to an independent Ombudsman. They can ask the Ombudsman for compensation for inconvenience the supplier's failures have caused. (In practice they won't award much - maybe around £50 to £150 - but they should seek what they believe is an appropriate and reasonable amount.)

If the supplier is threatening legal action your in laws should consider paying what they estimate they are due to pay. (They should err in their favour, pending receipt of an accurate bill, so as not to overpay.) They should only withhold any amount in dispute and not the full amount.

spiro

You need to bear in mind when a CoS reading is disputed the 2 suppliers need to agree a new reading but that should take weeks not months unless they need to do a site visit and access is an issue. As has been said the first step shkuld always be to raise a formal complaint.

footyguy

You can sue them for whatever you want.

But whether you will win, or even whether the judge will even consider it, is another question entirely.

I suggest you seek independent legal advice.

If, as it would appear, you simply have a complaint against your supplier, then follow the supplier's complaint procedure.

brewerdave

If the new supplier has charged from this "erroneous" starting meter reading then surely there is only a small difference in the overall cost due to the difference in price per kwh ??

hybernia

Again my thanks to everyone for their advice. I will sit down with inlaws on Sunday and go through the details with them, meantime I shall find out what their former supplier's complaints procedure is. Just to clear this up, we are not the ones who are having the problem with this company. Also it isn't our ILs new supplier but their old supplier and its miscalculated final bill.

MoonFace_2

Are the readings the same though? Although the final bill might be wrong, as long as the final read from the old supplier matches the first read from the new supplier the overall costs aren't going to be massively different.

If the old supplier amends the reading and reduces the bill by £200 (for example), the new supplier would also amend their reading and you'd see the outstanding amount owed to the new supplier rise by a similar amount (unless the unit rates were MASSIVELY different)

So, while it might be wrong, it's wrong in two places - all you may be doing is shifting who the money is owed to - which in terms of effort, might be just as easy to pay what is owing.