Section 42 uplift (HCEO) evictions, I want to start a campaign. Who's in?

silvercar

thesaint wrote: »

So, how will stopping landlords using an HCEO help with what you have outlined? :think:

It won't, I didn't say it would, I was just saying the problem lies with tenants waiting for the council to provide housing.

silvercar

Jr1871 wrote: »

....
If a no fault eviction is given a bailiff date, and the landlord wishes to change the rules, the council's advise people to stay until eviction, usually children are involved, why should they be placed in such jeopardy, and given no notice of such draconian methods.

....

Nowhere in that did you mention that the tenant actually look themselves for alternative accommodation. People wait for the council to sort them out in order to move from a private rental scenario to a more secure council/ HA property. if they took it upon themselves to seek alternative accommodation they wouldn't be at the mercy of the council's lack of provision.

Jr1871

mrginge wrote: »

Well that's interesting. You talk about a fair deal for people, but it appears that that doesn't include a fair deal for the owner of the property.

And frankly, your assertion about anyone who disagrees with you is pretty pathetic. If you want to start a campaign for your cause, how do you expect to get anywhere if you can't defend your position without resorting to childish insinuations?

Poor trolling......I make no assertions about those disagreeing with me. I'm just surprised this forum seems to have a number of people who will just argue for the hell of it. Please answer this. Do you think immediate evictions, with no notice, based on an already pre determined date given in writing by a County Court are appropriate when children or vulnerable adults are the subject of the action. Let's roll back,, and start with that most basic of arguments?

As for my feelings about landlords, of course they should regain what belongs to them, as quickly and fairly as possible. I just simply object to, what appears to me to be a fairly major crack in the system,.

thesaint

Jr1871 wrote: »

Please answer this. Do you think immediate evictions, with no notice, based on an already pre determined date given in writing by a County Court

So, you are saying that the tenant has a future date with the bailiff, and then an HCEO turns up? This simply does not happen.
The tenant is told they need to give up possession by "x" date. They decide(for whatever reason) to ignore a court order. Ignoring court orders is not acceptable for other members of the public.

The tenant has known for MONTHS that the landlord wants the property back. The problem is NOT of the landlords making.

If more landlords used the HCEO route, tenants and councils would be less likely to prolong the inevitable. Landlords don't pay four or five times the rate the County Court bailiffs charge for the fun of it.

To stop the practice, campaign elsewhere.

seven-day-weekend

I agree that to be given notice on your home and having to find somewhere else may be very stressful, but a others have said, the tenants have had several months to sort themselves out. If they have ignored the deadline, then what is the landlord to do?

If they are disabled or in any other way vulnerable, the council will rehome them anyway.

mrginge

Jr1871 wrote: »

Poor trolling......I make no assertions about those disagreeing with me. I'm just surprised this forum seems to have a number of people who will just argue for the hell of it.

People are not arguing for the hell of it. They are pointing out the flaws in your argument. You are choosing to ignore that and repeat your emotionally charged diatribe whilst inadvertently using classic reverse trolling strategy.

Please answer this. Do you think immediate evictions, with no notice, based on an already pre determined date given in writing by a County Court are appropriate when children or vulnerable adults are the subject of the action. Let's roll back,, and start with that most basic of arguments?

Please see thesaint's response.

As for my feelings about landlords, of course they should regain what belongs to them, as quickly and fairly as possible. I just simply object to, what appears to me to be a fairly major crack in the system,.

So you support the rights of landlords, yet want to penalise them by restricting their rights?
Why are you not directing your anger at the party that tells the tenant to stay put and places them at risk of an HCEO eviction?

I'm afraid your logic is all over the place and until you can address the points made by the majority of the 'trolls' on here then no more comment is needed.

princeofpounds

I think a lot of people are not always thinking this process through clearly.


It is not wise to have instant evictions subsequent to a verdict. The simple reason for that is that not all verdicts are predictable in advance. Not even Section 21s, where service of the notice is disputed for example.


So there are plenty of cases where it would not be possible or right to fully prepare for instant departure, and the law does need to protect those people who have a good faith case and lose it on a civil judgment based on a narrow balance of probabilities.


However, I do also agree that if the LL has a valid case to end the tenancy, they should also have a reasonable expectation that justice can be served within a reasonable timespan. If they have had to wait a long time for court scheduling, and then have to wait a long time for regular bailiffs, it is often possible that the delay exceeds three or four months from the point of court application, let alone the desire to end the contract. Personally I think that three months is a reasonable acceptable target, but no doubt there will be a spread of opinions on the matter.


Obviously for Section 8 cases, submitting the application for court can be quick or even instant (depending on the grounds used), whereas for Section 21 cases there is a minimum 2 month waiting period.


I would not count the Section 21 waiting period as a delay - this is a no-fault notice that represents good and fair practice in ending a contract. But I would, for example, count the 2 rental payments waiting period imposed by the Section 8 rent arrears grounds (typically one month and one day in effect) as a delay.


The time that serves nobody any benefit (except perhaps to get cases in order and appoint a solicitor) is the time between the court case application and the verdict. This is the time that needs to be minimised as much as possible to deliver justice most efficiently. But then it relies on the efficiency of the courts, something that they are not famous for (although modern working practices are now filtering through in many areas these days).


Then there is a general question about local authority 'gatekeeping' - getting tenants to stay in place until a verdict - which is against government guidance and clogs up the court system itself by seeing through cases that tenants have no ability or even willingness to win.


There is a burden for housing these people which the housing offices try to temporarily shift onto private landlords. It is not really right - a bit like HMRC refusing to pay back tax for a year because it would quite like to collect some interest.


I happen to believe that the way housing offices discharge their duty to house 'vulnerable' people is not correct anyway, but that's a topic for another time.

[Deleted User]

To be honest, while I do think that LL's should have a way of getting tenants out quicker than the present possession order, bailiff's warrant process.., it should also be necessary that when a LL uses High Court Sheriffs the tenant is notified clearly so they and the LA (if necessary) can prepare for a quicker than expected eviction. To some tenants, who aren't very aware of the eviction process (just listen to the Housing bod who has no interest in giving accurate information really).

As some of you will be aware, I am going through this process as a tenant, I am well aware my LL could go for eviction by High Court Sheriffs, but I wouldn't know if I hadn't watched the TV series. Housing have only told me that they won't do anything (and I do mean anything) until I receive a bailiff's warrant. If I didn't know different, I'd assume that that is all that could happen. Fortunately, I do know of the Sheriffs, thank goodness.

I am not surprised to see the attitude on some of the posts. You don't get it til you live it.., I know that. But having been given notice by my LL because he wants to sell, had viewings from people who are quite obviously not LL's who want a sitting tenant (contrary to what my LL said would be coming round, but I'm not surprised by that, if he wants to sell, he will sell to anyone with the money of course, just wish he hadn't made that a reason for me to decorate). It wasn't an easy tenancy anyway because the LL wouldn't do repairs.., but since last September, its been an even more difficult time. Having to get ready for viewings knowing the LL was asking too much money for the place.., then refusing to do more viewings because I was in too much pain, worrying about my sons both with autism (who get stressed at any change), being terribly stressed myself, even suicidal because of all this.

Of course people say 'find another private rental' - even the council aren't suggesting this because they know what LHA is, and what private rentals cost.., there's very few in receipt of LHA here that can afford it. If I move to another part of the country.., I lose the services provided for my sons, that were long awaited for.., going on waiting lists for assessments again (12 weeks), waiting for the referral to specialists (a year). And the impact all that will have on both my sons. I moved here from another part of the country.., I know what isn't out there. I moved because it wasn't. Rents here were affordable then, with some sacrifices. Its changed radically since.

So its not quite as easy as some on here seem to think. I'm just trying to minimise damage.., not sitting on my backside 'prepared to put up with some discomfort in emergency housing' so I will stand a chance of getting some nice cosy social housing. I doubt that such a thing exists anyway.

I never stop trying to find a way to make this work. I hardly sleep, trying to find the way. Its not the easy route. In my case, and in the case of other people, its the only way. And it really is unpleasant. I'm still keeling over because of hypo's/then having periods of insulin resistance to contrast because of the stress. In spite of my best efforts to control it. Believe you me, no one would go through this if there was a choice that even vaguely worked.

And I'm sorry, but it does feel a tad wrong.., that tenants don't even know until a sheriff turns up at the door that they can be turfed onto the street while thinking they have a few weeks more. A notice of a change of courts handling the eviction process does need to be sent. I still don't know how I will manage to move in one day.., because the council won't do anything until then. I get through each day by preparing (and yes I do have the problem of what can I pack up with a couple of months to go - I think). Its a nightmare.., and with two kids with autism, who need structure in their lives or we get meltdowns, its not easy contemplating that day. The LL's already told me I need to empty the house or I will be paying for a skip (he said £250 and a day rate for people to remove anything I leave on top of the court fees). And don't forget, if I went to another private rental, like so many people seem to think is so easy.., I could be doing this on a yearly or even 6 monthly basis, if I even found another private LL who'd take a benefit tenant (I'm 50 so no guarantors even though I manage my finances very very ably).

Imagine me trawling through an area of the country I don't know, trying to find a private rental with two frightened young people who find walking in places they don't know very difficult. Nightmare. Every time the LL tried to give me notice when I didn't quite jump high enough (when asking him to do a repair that he should have done) I fell apart, because I knew what this process would be like). And it is like that, only worse because there really is no help. I thought there was, but I've tried everything and there's nothing.

martinsurrey

princeofpounds wrote: »

I think a lot of people are not always thinking this process through clearly.


It is not wise to have instant evictions subsequent to a verdict. The simple reason for that is that not all verdicts are predictable in advance. Not even Section 21s, where service of the notice is disputed for example.

hmmm are you getting confused about something?

after the possession order is granted there is a wait period before eviction

it goes to court and the court grants a possession order. It states a day that the tenant must leave (normally 14 days from the date of the order).

only once that time is up can the LL a point a county court bailiff, or escalate to the high court...

so the tenant has (Normally) 2 weeks from losing before the LL can do anything.

the tenant gets,
1) notice from the LL that he's going to court
(wait the required time)
2) notice from the court about the court date
(wait the required time for a court date)
3) notice from the court if they lose
(wait the required notice as determined by the court)
4) appoint bailiffs

how much notice do they need?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/court_action_for_eviction/court_orders

dodger1

Jr1871 wrote: »

Some lucky, and residentially very secure commenters on this....of course I do not wish to enable rent defaulters to screw yet money from landlord's, a couple of people have rightfully picked up my ire with the scenario.

If a no fault eviction is given a bailiff date, and the landlord wishes to change the rules, the council's advise people to stay until eviction, usually children are involved, why should they be placed in such jeopardy, and given no notice of such draconian methods.

Anybody unable to see this is a harsh possibility, and very unfair, needs in my humble opinion to think this through further. Imagine yourself in the situation, as a tenant you act correctly, and take note of what the council say, and without any communication are literally made homeless instantly.....

My aim is to educate people defending as LIP'S, or Mckenzie's friends, that a little preperation can ensure this very nasty surprise won't happen to people you are helping. It is of course down to conscience if you use the angle if the evictee is somebody ragging the landlord. I personally wouldn't.

In my opinion at least where children are involved, once a date is given the council should rehouse immediately and not wait until the bailiffs turn up. Unless of course they (the working parents) can afford private rentals. I'm a tenant and if I know the LL is looking to evict for whatever reason I'd be looking for a new place right away and that's how the councils should be acting.