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kinger101

ukcarper wrote: »

UK ranks higher than Germany http://www.edudemic.com/learning-curve-report-education/

According to one metric, which seems to give quite erratic scores for all countries between just two years. New Zealand goes from 0.56 to 0.35 for example.

ukcarper

From what I can tell the German system is nothing like Grammar schools in UK and there is not an equivelent to 11+.

CLAPTON

ukcarper wrote: »

From what I can tell the German system is nothing like Grammar schools in UK and there is not an equivelent to 11+.

there may be other educational systems than the british ones

ukcarper

O

CLAPTON wrote: »

there may be other educational systems than the british ones

True and I'm not saying there can't be improvements it's just that determining someone's future by a exam at age 11 is not the way forward, especially if you want to improve overall education standards rather than that of a selected few.

Finland do OK without selection.

CLAPTON

ukcarper wrote: »

O
True and I'm not saying there can't be improvements it's just that determining someone's future by a exam at age 11 is not the way forward, especially if you want to improve overall education standards rather than that of a selected few.

Finland do OK without selection.

indeed so
the principles are the issue : the details can be varied

princeofpounds

but there are comprehensives and comprehensives
the good ones attract a substantial house price premium too

Absolutely this.


Whenever you get non-market rationing of a service (such as education) rather than markets, then black or grey markets will inevitably spring up as a direct consequence.


Some people pay for a good education by paying the school. Other people pay for a good education buy paying a premium on their accommodation.


The sorting based on wealth still happens, to some degree it is inevitable unless you start assigning places by lottery and requiring parents to bus children all around the local authority area (which some nuttier local authorities have tried in past).


I'm a firm believer in the benefits of streaming - it's important to teach children to their level whether higher or lower. And if we are all being honest, badly-behaved kids drag everyone else down by their consumption of teaching resources.


I think it's slightly less important whether that streaming happens within a school or between schools.


The other thing I believe is that we should not force all children to attend state schools. Parents raise their children, not the state. If parents want to pay to create a private place, that's great. They are paying the tax but not taking the cost. It's good for everyone else (and if you took all the private school students and stuck them in the state system it would collapse).


I do think all schools should be teaching a minimum national curriculum and subject to state inspection; the state does not raise children but I think the community has a place checking they are ok.

CLAPTON

princeofpounds wrote: »

I do think all schools should be teaching a minimum national curriculum and subject to state inspection; the state does not raise children but I think the community has a place checking they are ok.

that would depends upon what the curriculum is.

how is it possible to have so many different curricula over the last 50 years that are all equally excellent?

gadgetmind

ukcarper wrote: »

UK ranks higher than Germany http://www.edudemic.com/learning-curve-report-education/

I know where I'd rather be hiring engineers!

What we need is an educational system that allows those who want to get on to do so, while not giving up on the rest. I'm not going to slam my fist on the table and insist that streaming by school is the only way, but it certainly seems to work as long as ability is the key selection criteria.

I also had to suffer from having people in the class with no desire to work (our grammar was forced to go comprehensive due to local authority politics after three years) and it really isn't a great way to learn.

ukcarper

gadgetmind wrote: »

I also had to suffer from having people in the class with no desire to work (our grammar was forced to go comprehensive due to local authority politics after three years) and it really isn't a great way to learn.

But that shouldn't be allowed to happen even in my secondary modern which, was streamed within the school that didn't happen.

Generali

gadgetmind wrote: »

I know where I'd rather be hiring engineers!

And I know where I'd rather be hiring bankers!