Tax Credits

ukcarper

CLAPTON wrote: »

why do you consider that children who went to secondary moderns 'consigned to the bin'?
Isn't that just left wing propaganda of the worst sort?

Germany seems to have a system of parallel schools and they do reasonable well

Because your changes were serverly reduced with almost no chance of taking A Levels let alone going to university.

The saving grace was that at the time you could get jobs that provided a good level of training/education I'm not so sure many of those exist now.

ukcarper

gadgetmind wrote: »

Agreed, though the comprehensives were barely "the bin", but neither were they really aiming for the standards required for universities at the time.



They provided a degree of "educational mobility" that's now filled by private schools, for those who can afford them, which my parents definitely couldn't! Given the choice between not streaming at all, streaming by money, or streaming by ability, I'm afraid that I'll always choose the latter.

Secondary moderns were not comprehensives.

Why do you have to stream by separate schools it's perfectly possible to stream within schools.

In the areas where Grammar Schools still exist streaming is still by money to a degree with better off parents paying for private tuition.

CLAPTON

ukcarper wrote: »

Because your changes were serverly reduced with almost no chance of taking A Levels let alone going to university.

there were few that were capable of taking A/L (before they were dumped down)
and some secondary moderns did run a/l classes and the opportunity to transfer schools at 15/16 was available

german schools seem to have parallel systems without doing too bad.

Moby

Due to the nature of my work I see a lot of 'problem' families. In London there is a major issue with gangs, drugs, crime etc. If young people are outside their postcode they get challenged by other street gangs. Young women are 'passed' between different male gang members to be used and abused. Sleeping with a 'shank' under the pillow and in your back pocket during the day is a way of life. Probation, YOT teams and police try but there is no money and few resources. Of course most of these young people get convictions sooner or later. Any employment /training chances they had then take a serious dive......because an employer weeds out someone with convictions. We get some of them jobs in warehouses etc.........but they are fixated on making money. Its the world they know. Why would they bother with the minimum wage when local drug runners are earning thousands?.....and frankly lets face it......... marketing, advertising, consumerism feeds into this by continually telling them that buying/nicking those £150 trainers will make them a 'man'. Day after day I visit properties where the kids live in squalour, there is nothing in the fridge but there is a massive 60inch tv blaring out adverts promising the world available to anyone if you can get money! Nothing has changed since the London riots in August 2011....other than we now have huge pressures on housing, further population increases and people living more than ever in ghettos, knowing next to nothing about the culture of where they live. Resources are being squeezed and to cap it all we have a Govmt completely out of touch with the world I describe................We are storing up trouble for the future in a serious way imo! The point of benefits etc is to keep society stable enough so the rich can feel safe in their beds at night. Those of us who feel able to judge the !!!!less poor amongst us need to think about that a tad more!

ukcarper

CLAPTON wrote: »

there were few that were capable of taking A/L (before they were dumped down)
and some secondary moderns did run a/l classes and the opportunity to transfer schools at 15/16 was available

german schools seem to have parallel systems without doing too bad.

That didn't exist in my school and was not the norm. I along with many others who went to secondary moderns went on to get degree level qualifications in a subject more academic than many of today's degrees.

Malthusian

Why would they bother with the minimum wage when local drug runners are earning thousands?

According to Freakonomics, drug dealers earn less than the minimum wage. The reason young men become drug dealers rather than better-paid shelf stackers is mainly the lure of becoming one of the "big men" who do earn thousands (and have the cars, the women, the respect, etc etc). The incentive is not the money they get for dealing but the small chance of big money in the future. It's similar in that respect to taking up professional football.

This was written 10 years ago and about New York City rather than the UK, so I don't know whether it's universally true, but I would still be surprised if the average dealer - the boys on the street corner, not the big dicks in the Mercedes - earns all that much. It's not a job that requires rare talent or qualifications, after all. (Naturally, being able to stay on the dole and not subject to the usual 90% marginal tax rates on low earners boosts the attraction of the black economy immensely.)

gadgetmind

ukcarper wrote: »

Secondary moderns were not comprehensives.

Choices for us were to apply yourself and go to the grammar school or go to one of two comprehensives.

Why do you have to stream by separate schools it's perfectly possible to stream within schools.

True enough, but does it really get the same results?

In the areas where Grammar Schools still exist streaming is still by money to a degree with better off parents paying for private tuition.

That some are prepared to pay this suggests that the answer to my question above is "No, not really".

As for private tuition, we didn't have that in my day and had to read books instead. It were grim!

Moby

Malthusian wrote: »

According to Freakonomics, drug dealers earn less than the minimum wage. The reason young men become drug dealers rather than better-paid shelf stackers is mainly the lure of becoming one of the "big men" who do earn thousands (and have the cars, the women, the respect, etc etc). The incentive is not the money they get for dealing but the small chance of big money in the future. It's similar in that respect to taking up professional football.

This was written 10 years ago and about New York City rather than the UK, so I don't know whether it's universally true, but I would still be surprised if the average dealer - the boys on the street corner, not the big dicks in the Mercedes - earns all that much. It's not a job that requires rare talent or qualifications, after all. (Naturally, being able to stay on the dole and not subject to the usual 90% marginal tax rates on low earners boosts the attraction of the black economy immensely.)

Yep my error....I mean't the local dealer not runner. Like you said the runners earn little and usually end up getting caught as well!

ukcarper

gadgetmind wrote: »

Choices for us were to apply yourself and go to the grammar school or go to one of two comprehensives.

True enough, but does it really get the same results?

That some are prepared to pay this suggests that the answer to my question above is "No, not really".

As for private tuition, we didn't have that in my day and had to read books instead. It were grim!

I still think 11 is to early to make that decision and children under that age are influenced strongly by their parents and those children would probably do OK in any system.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Yep my error....I mean't the local dealer not runner. Like you said the runners earn little and usually end up getting caught as well!

usa do it better: the little guys end up dead there