Tax Credits

kinger101

Moby wrote: »

Research published today indicates that there are more than 70 tory MP's with majorities smaller than number of families who will be hit by the tax credit axe. Many Tory MP's also fail to see how this way of slashing the deficit fits with Porky Dave's claim to be the workers party. Recent research also shows that one in four workers in the UK are paid less than the living wage, up from one in five two years ago. The problem of low pay in the UK is becoming a major issue and changes to tax credits are going to make things a whole lot worse.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/17/tory-mps-at-risk-tax-credits

The House Of Commons library has found that some families are in line to lose up to 3k a year!

I expect there is a silent majority in favour of tax credits being slashed. The benefits system was never meant to be a viable long term alternative to working full time for a living.

gadgetmind

kinger101 wrote: »

I expect there is a silent majority in favour of tax credits being slashed.

Not so silent in many cases!

We have means tested personal allowance and 20% tax bracket. Why fiddle around with credits when we already have these tax breaks in place?

tomtontom

gadgetmind wrote: »

Not so silent in many cases!

We have means tested personal allowance and 20% tax bracket. Why fiddle around with credits when we already have these tax breaks in place?

Because too many people are using tax credits as a form of benefit maximisation - they are a disincentive to work any more than the minimum required.

gadgetmind

I agree and was questioning (badly, I accept, broke elbow yesterday, typing and thinking hard!) why on earth we needed them in the first place.

leveller2911

Moby wrote: »

Research published today indicates that there are more than 70 tory MP's with majorities smaller than number of families who will be hit by the tax credit axe. Many Tory MP's also fail to see how this way of slashing the deficit fits with Porky Dave's claim to be the workers party. Recent research also shows that one in four workers in the UK are paid less than the living wage, up from one in five two years ago. The problem of low pay in the UK is becoming a major issue and changes to tax credits are going to make things a whole lot worse.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/17/tory-mps-at-risk-tax-credits

The House Of Commons library has found that some families are in line to lose up to 3k a year!

Oh an article from the Guardian. How about we have some facts that the Guardian just don't seem to be interested in...........

The NMW will be rising considerably over the next few years so working will pay . Lets just remind ourselves why the changes are happening Moby. People were choosing to working the minimum number of hrs a week (16) to maximise their tax credit entitlement.

We then had a deluge of start up self employed "businesses" such as Avon collectors and Betterware when the rules changed previosuly with regards to needing to work more hours which was a complete sham. People supposedly doing 32hrs a week of self employed work but earning £1.10hr and getting £10,000's in benefits for doing naff all. It was, again an complete sham , people using the system to minimise their working hours to maximise benefits.

Just to remind you Moby someone who is genuinely working full time (in a proper job) needed to earn a gross wage of £35k to have the same income as families received tax credits and who worked 16hrs a week. Fair?

Which party was it that thought tax credits were a great idea?.......

Oh yes , thats right ,it was Labour . All they wanted to do was bribe the electorate and make the working class rely on Labour, Labour bought the working class vote but luckily common sense prevailed and the party that spent money like a sex addict in a !!!!!! house got what they deserved and with their current leadership won't see power for a decade..

beecher2

kinger101 wrote: »

I expect there is a silent majority in favour of tax credits being slashed. The benefits system was never meant to be a viable long term alternative to working full time for a living.

I expect so too and if more people knew the eyewatering amounts that some people are getting I think they would be less silent. If I was earning £10k and my fellow worker was taking home £20k for the same work I'd be raging mad.

zagfles

kinger101 wrote: »

True, but it was the Tax Credit Act of 2002 that sent the bill into the stratosphere.

Not so much that but the massive increases to the child element of CTC since 2003, as that was main tool use to chase the daft "child poverty" targets. It wasn't just Labour, even the coalition increased it well above inflation.

zagfles

Moby wrote: »

Research published today indicates that there are more than 70 tory MP's with majorities smaller than number of families who will be hit by the tax credit axe.

Only 70? I'd have thought it would be far more. But I'm not sure what that statistic is supposed to tell us. I doubt they all voted Tory.

Many Tory MP's also fail to see how this way of slashing the deficit fits with Porky Dave's claim to be the workers party. Recent research also shows that one in four workers in the UK are paid less than the living wage, up from one in five two years ago. The problem of low pay in the UK is becoming a major issue and changes to tax credits are going to make things a whole lot worse.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/17/tory-mps-at-risk-tax-credits

The House Of Commons library has found that some families are in line to lose up to 3k a year!

And some will lose more. To lose £3k a year the family would need to have an income of around £32k, and obviously be currently getting at least £3k in tax credits. This would tend to be larger families or those with high childcare costs.

michaels

Moby wrote: »

Research published today indicates that there are more than 70 tory MP's with majorities smaller than number of families who will be hit by the tax credit axe. Many Tory MP's also fail to see how this way of slashing the deficit fits with Porky Dave's claim to be the workers party. Recent research also shows that one in four workers in the UK are paid less than the living wage, up from one in five two years ago. The problem of low pay in the UK is becoming a major issue and changes to tax credits are going to make things a whole lot worse.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/17/tory-mps-at-risk-tax-credits

The House Of Commons library has found that some families are in line to lose up to 3k a year!

I bet there are many more Labour MPs who's majority is smaller than the number of voters who will benefit from the increase in the minimum wage or the increase in the personal allowance.

Having said that when the budget came out I was pretty clear I that the increase in the minimum wage was a smoke and mirrors to change the subject from the draconian cuts in benefits and that whilst it allowed Gideon to get away with it in the next days headlines it would come home to haunt him. Covering up a bad unpopular policy with a bad popular one may be good politics but is not great economics. As noted above in this thread the cut in the threshold I think can be justified, the increase in the marginal withdrawal rate goes diametrically against stated Tory policy of making work pay.

zagfles

michaels wrote: »

I bet there are many more Labour MPs who's majority is smaller than the number of voters who will benefit from the increase in the minimum wage or the increase in the personal allowance.

Having said that when the budget came out I was pretty clear I that the increase in the minimum wage was a smoke and mirrors to change the subject from the draconian cuts in benefits and that whilst it allowed Gideon to get away with it in the next days headlines it would come home to haunt him. Covering up a bad unpopular policy with a bad popular one may be good politics but is not great economics. As noted above in this thread the cut in the threshold I think can be justified, the increase in the marginal withdrawal rate goes diametrically against stated Tory policy of making work pay.

Politically it could be brilliant. I'm starting to think they're playing this in the same way as the child benefit cut for high earners.

That was a hugely popular policy with the general public - something like 80%+ support. It had unfair anomilies, such as 2 earners on £50k each ie £100k between them got no cut but a single earner on £60k got their entire child ben cut. But even these anomilies were politically brilliant, as it kept a popular policy in the headlines, and all the typical Sun reader would take in is "the rich complaining about losing benefits".

The tax credits cut is similar in that the biggest losers are those with the highest incomes. Some families will lose £3000 - yes those on £32k. This then highlights the fact that some people on £32k are getting £3k+ in tax credits. The reaction of your typical Sun reader who's probably never had a job paying above £20k is likely to be the same as when he hears people whinging about the child ben cut. Diddums, the "rich" complaining about benefits cuts.

The reality is most voters have a tiny attention span and aren't going to pay attention to the detail unless they're personally affected.