No exit itinerary

cymraeg_bachgen

Hi all,

I just want to check - if the landlord did not conduct an exit itinerary with me present before they started redecorating and cleaning the property, they cannot hold me liable for any faults found after this. Is that right?

Also, if the landlord is entering the property without my express consent, or with me in the property, does this constitute harassment, and does it also invalidate any 'faults' they find as I (and they) cannot prove that the landlord hasn't maliciously or accidentally caused them

Many thanks!

G_M

cymraeg_bachgen wrote: »

Hi all,

I just want to check - if the landlord did not conduct an exit itinerary with me present before they started redecorating and cleaning the property, they cannot hold me liable for any faults found after this. Is that right?
not necessarily. (I assume you don't really mean itinerary though). If they made an inspection before redecorating, either themselves or via an inventory clerk, and documented missing, damaged or dirty items, then they can make a claim.

Also, if the landlord is entering the property without my express consent, or with me in the property, does this constitute harassment,
not necessarily. It depends on the circumstances. How often. Why. Following what communication. Doing what in the property.What is said in the tenancy agreement. Whether the tenancy is ending. etc

and does it also invalidate any 'faults' they find as I (and they) cannot prove that the landlord hasn't maliciously or accidentally caused them

No. Of course if you believe the LL has maliciously or accidentally caused'faults' you should dispute any claims he LL makes.

cymraeg_bachgen

No - itinerary is not what I meant! Inventory is what I meant.

No they have found 'faults' after they have done cleaning and redecoration, but not before. And I wasn't there. The tenancy is coming to an end, but it is with no notice, and increasing frequency. They are also saying when we, the tenants, can come and go. Plus, there hasn't been anything formal just a couple of texts and conversations - there is a dent here, a scratch here and a spot stain here: give us £400 or recarpet the whole house.

G_M

I'm confused.

1) has the tenancy ended yet?

2) if not, how can any faults be found?

3) If not, why are you coming/going and how/why is the LL stopping you?

4) if it has ended, why are you still coming/going?

5) How is the tenancy ending?
a) end of fixed term and you (tenant) intend to leave?
b) LL has served notice? When? How? What expiry date?
c) you served notice? When? How? expiry date? Date fixed term ended (if relevant)?

6) Is this an HMO? (affects LL right of access)?

7) you mention 'tenants'. Is it a single 'joint & several' tenancy, or do you each have separate tenancies?

8) is your deposit protected? When & where? Read:
* Deposits: payment, protection and return

Much more information needed.

cymraeg_bachgen

1. Tenancy has not ended yet - we were forced to take on an extra month even though we 'moved out' two weeks ago, to keep the landlord in pocket (he threatened to take us to court if we didnt)
2. He is finding faults as he cleans and redecorates, but did not give us opportunity to fix any of these as he started cleaning and redecorating the day after we moved out (but still with three weeks to go on tenancy)
3. I've been coming and going to sort out garden and move a few items we have left at the house (mainly gardening tools and plants etc)
4. n/a
5.We had a year fixed term tenancy. We took out a further year. That expired in August, but in June we agreed a rolling tenancy agreement to deal with the final few months - he wouldnt agree to just a weeks tenancy extension (see above)
6. HMO??
7. It is a joint tenancy with my wife
8. Deposit is protected, but landlord is unwilling to use ADR - prefers court action.

G_M

Sigh!

cymraeg_bachgen wrote: »

1. Tenancy has not ended yet - we were forced to take on an extra month even though we 'moved out' two weeks ago, to keep the landlord in pocket (he threatened to take us to court if we didnt)
a) what does "forced to take on an extra month' mean? The tenancy ended and you signed/agreed a new 1 month tenancy? Or he explained to you that you had not given proper notice perhaps....?
b) on what grounds did he intend to take you to court?

2. He is finding faults as he cleans and redecorates,
If the tenancy has not ended, why is the LL cleaning/decorating?
Did you ask him to?
Do you want him to?

It is actually rather kind of him to clean and decorate your home. Oh, and it has no impact on your deposit since the tenancy has not ended yet.

but did not give us opportunity to fix any of these as he started cleaning and redecorating the day after we moved out (but still with three weeks to go on tenancy)
You do not need to worry till the tenancy ends. At that point, you take lots of photos. THAT is the time when he can do an inspection and determine what repais/cleaning is required. If he has already cleaned/decorated for you, then there will be no damage/cleaning required when the tenancy ends.

Lucky you!

3. I've been coming and going to sort out garden and move a few items we have left at the house (mainly gardening tools and plants etc)Fair enough
4. n/a
5.We had a year fixed term tenancy. We took out a further year. That expired in August, but in June we agreed a rolling tenancy agreement to deal with the final few months - he wouldnt agree to just a weeks tenancy extension (see above)
* Please give the exact date that the last fixed term ended in August.
* that will determine the dates of your 'rolling tenancy'.
* That in turn will determine what notice you should have given.

6. HMO?? House of Multiple Occupation. No longer relevant.
7. It is a joint tenancy with my wife OK, so not HMO
8. Deposit is protected, but landlord is unwilling to use ADR - prefers court action.

5) How is the tenancy ending?
a) ....n/a
b) .....n/a
c) EXACT date you served notice? When? How? EXACT expiry date? EXACT Date fixed term ended (if relevant)?

If LL wishes to go to court, then go to court. But that assumes he does not return your deposit when the tenancy ends, and you disagree with his reasons.

as it has not happened yet, nothing to do but wait and see.

Meanwhile:

a) if you are not happy with the LL entering your home during the tenancy for this redecorating, then
i) write to him at the address provided telling him to wait till the tenancy ends and
ii) change the locks (keep the old one and replace it on the last day of the tenancy

b) or let him redecorate, then on the last day of the tenancy,
i) go in with a camera, and an independant witness, and photograph everything ready to show the court what condition the property was in at the end of the tenancy, and
ii) write to the LL (at the proper address) requesting he return your deposit in full within 7 days

iii) assuming he does not, write a "Letter Before Action" giving him a further 5 days days and then go to court.

Meanwhile, for now, do NOT discuss the deposit, or the costs he is claiming, at all. It is premature as the tenancy has not ended.

cymraeg_bachgen

Excellent advice, Thank you very much.

I hadn't considered that, as the tenancy hasn't ended, he can't request paying for all he is doing.

We gave notice in May. The tenancy started rolling on 25th August. We wanted it to end on the 2nd October (one month rolling + one week) but landlord said it was take a full month or nothing - as our new house is a newbuild, we couldn't speed things along.

He is threatening us with court becase:

1. Scuff mark on 11 year old oven door. Otherwise in excellent condition. Fully operational. Landlord wants £70 (oven was £250 new) [says he probably isn't going to replace the oven, but there is a 'principle' at stake]
2. Dent on radiator. Cosmetic damage. Landlord wants £30 [again says he probably isn't going to replace the radiator]
3. Faint stain on 11 year old cream carpet. Only visible after carpet was professionally cleaned. We don't accept liability. Landlord wants us to 'make him an offer' (£100 was not enough) or claim on our insurance to recarpet the whole house (incurring £500 excess)

And we disagree with all of these.

ffacoffipawb

cymraeg_bachgen wrote: »

Excellent advice, Thank you very much.

I hadn't considered that, as the tenancy hasn't ended, he can't request paying for all he is doing.

We gave notice in May. The tenancy started rolling on 25th August. We wanted it to end on the 2nd October (one month rolling + one week) but landlord said it was take a full month or nothing - as our new house is a newbuild, we couldn't speed things along.

He is threatening us with court becase:

1. Scuff mark on 11 year old oven door. Otherwise in excellent condition. Fully operational. Landlord wants £70 (oven was £250 new) [says he probably isn't going to replace the oven, but there is a 'principle' at stake]
2. Dent on radiator. Cosmetic damage. Landlord wants £30 [again says he probably isn't going to replace the radiator]
3. Faint stain on 11 year old cream carpet. Only visible after carpet was professionally cleaned. We don't accept liability. Landlord wants us to 'make him an offer' (£100 was not enough) or claim on our insurance to recarpet the whole house (incurring £500 excess)

And we disagree with all of these.

Being pedantic, but shouldn't your name be bachgen_cymraeg?

cymraeg_bachgen

Absolutely - but the 13 year old me didn't know that, so it has stuck as a username Muscle memory to type it out like that now!

chris_m

cymraeg_bachgen wrote: »

I hadn't considered that, as the tenancy hasn't ended, he can't request paying for all he is doing.

He shouldn't even be in there doing it.

And we disagree with all of these.

Does he have evidence that these weren't present before you moved in - or, even better, do you have evidence that they were?

G_M

cymraeg_bachgen wrote: »

....
We gave notice in May. The tenancy started rolling on 25th August. We wanted it to end on the 2nd October (one month rolling + one week) but landlord said it was take a full month or nothing - as our new house is a newbuild, we couldn't speed things along.

Please answer the question!

c) EXACT date you served notice? When? How? EXACT expiry date? EXACT Date fixed term ended (if relevant)?

However it seems you have a potential problem - you do not appear to have served valid notice, so there is a possibility the LL could continue to charge you rent.

As I understand it
* your fixed term contract ended 24th August
* your periodic tenancy (rolling) started on 25th August
* you have not yet served notice to end the periodic tenancy, since you cannot give notice to end a tenancy before it has started.
* when you DO serve notice, it must end on the 24th of a month, and be at least a month in length (hence why I keep asking you for exact dates)

Scuff mark on 11 year old oven door. Otherwise in excellent condition. Fully operational. Landlord wants £70 (oven was £250 new) [says he probably isn't going to replace the oven, but there is a 'principle' at stake]whether LL replaces the oven is irrelevant. If you damaged it, you can be charged.
Have you checked the price of a replacement door for that oven model? About half the cost might be fair to allow for 'betterment'
Dent on radiator. Cosmetic damage. Landlord wants £30 [again says he probably isn't going to replace the radiator]again - he does not have to replace. Check price of new radiator and allow for 'betterment'
Faint stain on 11 year old cream carpet. Only visible after carpet was professionally cleaned. We don't accept liability. Landlord wants us to 'make him an offer' (£100 was not enough) or claim on our insurance to recarpet the whole house (incurring £500 excess)

You don't accept responsibility because......?
What does the check-in inventory say?
Re-carpeting whole house is absurd.
What quality carpet? A carpet in a let property probobly has a life expectancy of 10 - 15 years? Let's be generous and say 15, so he can claim 4/15ths of the cost of replacing the carpet in that room (at most) (otherwise he benefits from 'betterment')