Job applications - a rant!!!

PenguinOfDeath

gettingready wrote: »

Sorry but I would not provide referees details before a job offer was in place.

If someone is changing jobs, last thing they want is for PROSPECTIVE employer to bother their current one - and some would do this even before an interview. Which is simply wrong as current employer does not need to know their staff are looking to move on.

So yup. "Referees on request" - after the job offer is in place..

Definitely this. If I saw this on an advert I either wouldn't apply altogether or would but omitting the reference details, whyever would you need these until after a successful interview?

axomoxia

PenguinOfDeath wrote: »

Definitely this. If I saw this on an advert I either wouldn't apply altogether or would but omitting the reference details, whyever would you need these until after a successful interview?

Having had a colleague put in a vary difficult position after some idiot decided to approach his current employer prior to interview, I must agree that pre-offer references is a sign of a complete muppet, unless it comes with a disclaimer stating that references will not be contacted until offer. The only other people after references prior to offer are agencies fishing for sales leads.

Were I am currently, we don't bother with cover letters - all the pertinent information should be available on the front page of CV (and if it isn't your CV will get binned). At the end of the day, the ability to write good cover letters does not feature highly on our requirements.

BigAunty

One of my friends worked in a warehouse and his boss's way of filtering out a majority of the applications was to bin all for those living over x distance away. If they didn't live locally, he wasn't interested.

He used to get loads of applications from a city miles away - he assumed the job centre forced the applicants to apply as it wasn't really within commuting distance or that JSA applicants were applying to keep the job centre off their back.

mattcanary

gettingready wrote: »

Competitive jobs do not go by pages and pages of application forms....Effort shows in experience, up-skilling while in previous job etc etc - easily shown on a CV but lost in tedious application forms.

I hate completing application forms. However, if you are looking to work in a different field then I'd say they give you a better chance of getting an interview than a CV would. Application forms give you more of an opportunity to tell employers about you and your attitudes.

mattcanary

DKLS wrote: »

Didn't they teach you how to screen CVs? its a useful skill there is Hr software that will do it for you now, but still useful, i can go through 100 Cvs and produce a short list in less than an hour. Trick is not to read but scan for the info you require then produce 4 piles:
Interview
Maybe
Fat chance
Retain for comedy value and office mockery.

Screening CVs does not find the best candidate. It is a robotic, tick-boxes process. Recruitment should be far more of a human, personal process.

DKLS

mattcanary wrote: »

Screening CVs does not find the best candidate. It is a robotic, tick-boxes process. Recruitment should be far more of a human, personal process.

In an ideal world maybe, but recruitment is only a tiny part of my job and one area where I am not measured on performance. I simply don't have time to read through CVs, and often don't read one in full until the day of the interview.

FBaby

At the end of the day, the ability to write good cover letters does not feature highly on our requirements.

That's what it comes down to. Most adverts will stipulate whether it is required/advised to submit on. Those who then can't be bothered to submit one when requested can't be surprised though when they are not invited for an interview.

FBaby

DD is in Year 11 and is getting many sessions training as part of her tutor time. It's a normal comprehensive school, but they have already designed their CV, work on personal statements and all year 11 have to go through a pretend job interview with the Head.

isplumm

bap98189 wrote: »

I would agree with that. I just spent the past 2 days interviewing candidates for a graduate position, and the vast majority had no idea how to conduct themselves in an interview. Now I appreciate that most were new graduates and probably had very little experience of interviews, but I would suggest that at some point during a student's 3 year education, universities should consider teaching at least the basics of how to apply for jobs and attend interviews.

Hi,

When I did my degree back in the early nineties, we had training on how to do interviews, create cvs, etc.

Stood me in good stead.

Mark

TBagpuss

I think that training must be very patchy.
We have offices in three towns and there are 4 local secondary schools.
One of them runs a regular workshop for their pupils covering things like CVs, cover letter setc, and they get local employers to come in to talk to the students, do mock interviews etc. and to provide feedback We have participated several times.
None of the other local schools seem to have anything similar.

I don't recall anything being taught to me when I was atschool, and at university we definitely didn't get offered anything, and although their was a careers office (althoug hit wasn't well publicised that it even exisited) but the advice they gave was awful.

A further issue is that where schools etc are offering advice it isn't always good!

I recently provided some work shadowing epxerience to an undergraduate student in m field. It should be noted that competition for entry-level, graduate jobs in my profession tends to be very high.

This student's CV and cover letter were awful. I offered her the work shadowing as we don't get a huge numbre of applicants so we will always try to say yes if we can. Also, i suspected that she might well be more promising than her application suggested.

Having spent a week with her shadowing me, and built up a bit of a relationship with her, I did offer her some feedback about her CV and cover letter.

She had had some advice but it sounded from what she said that a lot of it was poor advice and/or out of date.