Employee or Self-Employed? Is this company running/hiring legally?

JeffSaysRwar

Hi. This might be a little complicated to explain so thank you if you read it all & help clarify for me.

My partner is working in sales (they basically get people to sign up for various charities) for a company. The company tells all people who work there to regiser as self-employed, as a limited company. However, having looked online I'm unsure whether legally the people who work for the company as employees and not self-employed.

These are the basics:
The company tells him the hours he has to work (he has to be at the office at 7:30am, goes 'onto the field' from about 9am - 6/7pm & doesn't leave the office often until after 8:30/9pm. He also has to work Monday - Saturday every week. So about 78 hours / week the company is making him be at work).
The company tells him where he is working each day (no choise in this. He also has to pay his own transport to / from the location)
The company makes him go on 'business trips' about 1 week out of every 4 on average (again he has no choise in location & has to pay all own travel / accommodation expenses)
He gets payed by the company every week (no basic rate all commission based).
The company gives him the equipment he needs work (tablet / table for charity display).

To me this all sounds like he is technically an employee. I'm not sure if he signed any contract or not. I'm assuming not.

It's a sort of pyramid scheme type thing (is that the right term?) in that the higher up in the company you get the more money you earn from the people 'on your team' below you (you earn a percentage of their sales).

Basically this sounds like a way to make people work stupidly long hours with the promise of fast progression (this is what he keeps talking about - progressing & earning from people below him - although once someone progresses to running their own teams or to running their own office (which they have to pay £10,000 to open - again, if you want to 'progress' this is a requirement not an option) they still have to work the same hours.

Basically I want some solid evidence to show him that the company he is working for (because I'm sure he is working for them & not self-employed) is a load of ****. He is already away they're very manipulative. (He told his boss he was quitting the other week. He was told & was too good & wasn't going to quit & there he still is). My current plan of action is to point out that at 78 hours / week, earning (he clams) an average of £350/week, he working for about £4.50/hour.

If anyone can pass on any more evidence to prove this company is working illegally or unfairly, & anything that may help me convince him to leave & work elsewhere (he's always talking about leaving & other offers he's had but never follows up on them) I would be eternally greatful.

PlutoinCapricorn

He sounds like an employee in all but name. Some companies tell staff to operate as self-employed just to avoid paying sick pay, holiday pay, employer's NI etc.

It sounds as though he is being exploited.

Contact Acas (or the Labour Relations Agency in Northern Ireland) for advice about employment status, employee rights or employer responsibilities.

Acas helpline
Telephone: 0300 123 1100
Textphone: 18001 0300 123 1100
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 1pm

PlutoinCapricorn

The problem is that, just like with MLM, people often get dazzled with what think think are going to be huge opportunities and don't want to be confused with facts!

JeffSaysRwar

That's what I keep trying to tell him! It's all well & good these people saying "look at me / this guy. He earns this much & you can earn that much in a year too if you work for it!" Ok.. but besides from these few people 'at the top', who I assume are the people who started up the company, where is the proof that it's possible for anyone to actually get to that same level & earn that much? The guy who runs the office my partner works at, who's earning (apparently) about £100,000/year, his dad owns a chain of huge retail stores.. so already in a pretty good position to start with really.

bsod

its brainwashing, some people are susceptible, some aren't, he's being used, and should get out before he is replaced.

On top of that, Limited companies come with a whole heap of bureaucracy which he will be responsible for, he will need to produce accounts and file returns on time.

Undervalued

PlutoinCapricorn wrote: »

He sounds like an employee in all but name. Some companies tell staff to operate as self-employed just to avoid paying sick pay, holiday pay, employer's NI etc.

Yes, that is true.

However, the responsibility for getting this right rests almost entirely with the "employer" as that is who HMRC will come after if he should have been PAYE.

Before getting too principled, you need to consider the alternatives and not cut off your nose to spite your face. Presumably if a equivalent or better "proper" job was easily obtainable he would have taken it? "Shopping" this type of employer to the authorities MAY help other people in the future but it is a sure fire way to immediate unemployment.

By all means compile evidence and look for an alternative but I would keep my powder dry until I had one.

PlutoinCapricorn

Earning cuts of the money raised by people below you is not very ethical: it means pressure to sell and/or sign people up. There are a lot of naive 'suckers' in the lower ranks. The facts you have given us speak for themselves, but some people just won't listen...

[Deleted User]

My hubby worked for a similar company for about a week switching people to other energy suppliers and signing up to charity direct debit.

Its one huge con, nobody works up the guys at the top have always been so just like the guys at the bottom will always be there.

That said he was an employee who could earn commission, paramount I think it was called.

JeffSaysRwar

@Undervalued:
As I said in my original post, he has been given multiple other employment offers - some with companies who opperate more or less the same, some with companies that run in a similar way but pay a basic wage with commission on top, & some "proper" as you called it jobs in retial. He always says he will follow up with the ones that sound good to him but then the next day it's all about the 'opportunities' at his current work place.

I simply would like to show him how little he is being payed for the hours (& extra work out of hours) he puts in. I'm tired of trying to keep up with him stay / leaving / hating where he works / feeling great about work. I want to find the facts, put them in front of him & hopefully he will be able to make a final decision about whether he wants to carry on working where he is or take one of the alternative offers that appealed to him.

[Deleted User]

Show him the following open group page on bookface if you can
it's called: Name and Shame Recruitment & Job Scams!
(sorry can't link to it otherwise I would)

See if the company name should appear on there.

Make him look at it before the "proper" companies won't take a second glance.

agrinnall

Why on earth would anybody do a job like that? If everybody just thought about the type of work they are prepared to accept then companies like this would soon be out of business, to the general betterment of society.