ESA and PIP to be merged?

gemmaking

The Guardian has reported that Iain Duncan Smith is considering merging personal independence payment (PIP) and employment and support allowance (ESA) into a single benefit or, alternatively, merging the two tests.


In an interview on 2 October, IDS told the Guardian:

“It is early days in the reform process, but Duncan Smith says that he has already started to ease the system through the “fit for work” programme, which makes an assessment of the needs of a claimant who falls ill, rather than “parking them on statutory sick pay”. He is also looking at the idea of merging ESA (paid to those out of work) with disability living allowance (DLA – paid to fund the costs of disabled people who are both in work and out of work) under universal credit. Alternatively, he might just merge the two tests for the benefits.

“Duncan Smith has a more favourable view of the DLA test. “My sense was if you just looked at disability living allowance, that doesn’t reach the same absolute. The test is not about ‘can you work or can’t you work’, it is looking at your condition.

You can read the full interview in the Guardian

rogerblack

Obvious and problematic.
First point is that IDS doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Firstly, he's commenting on DLA, when all new claims are PIP, and he was instrumental on bringing in PIP decrying DLA.

The second obvious problem is that ESA is _NOT_ABOUT_IF_YOU_CAN_WORK_.

This is a propaganda shortcut.
ESA is never, and has never been gettable simply because you can't work.

Someone (for example) has a sports injury and is unable to place either arm in an upper shirt pocket, but can do everything else without limitation is entitled to the support group.

Someone who can slowly wheel themselves 200m several times a day, understands only short sentances, can talk to people only a couple of hours a day, is blind but can read braille, can just about understand how to use a washing machine, who shouts out randomly - is entirely fit for work.

The other huge problem is that this will be wanted to be merged into universal credit.
This means that one bad asessment can find you entirely fit for work, and remove all protections, rather than requiring two.
It means that 'DLA' is means-tested, and that people in a relationship who are unable to work are now totally unable to financially contribute at all.

An attractive idea, and done right, sensitively, I think it is not ridiculous.

With IDS at the helm - who has repeatedly lied and charicatured the regulations as something they are not, it could be a nightmare.

To take some of the things that he's presided over.

If you have a physical health condition that requires you to take extremely high level of painkillers, such that you have no awareness of hazards, and can't find your way around outside, then those side-effects do not count in any way, and you can be assessed as fit for work.

If you are able to just about learn to use an alarm clock, but nothing more, and have various other disabilities and are found to be in the 'work related' group, you will get exactly the same amount as someone on JSA.
This is to remove the 'perverse incentive' that is stopping you working. Never mind that you can't actually count.

If you are a young very disabled person who is moving out on their own for the first time, you will never be treated as having valid contributions, meaning that you will always be a financial drain in whatever relationship you are in.

If you do manage to work, if you do it for more than 14 weeks, you will face a completely fresh assessment, even if your condition is lifelong, and accepted as so by the DWP.

pmlindyloo

gemmaking wrote: »

The Guardian has reported that Iain Duncan Smith is considering merging personal independence payment (PIP) and employment and support allowance (ESA) into a single benefit or, alternatively, merging the two tests.


In an interview on 2 October, IDS told the Guardian:

“It is early days in the reform process, but Duncan Smith says that he has already started to ease the system through the “fit for work” programme, which makes an assessment of the needs of a claimant who falls ill, rather than “parking them on statutory sick pay”. He is also looking at the idea of merging ESA (paid to those out of work) with disability living allowance (DLA – paid to fund the costs of disabled people who are both in work and out of work) under universal credit. Alternatively, he might just merge the two tests for the benefits.

“Duncan Smith has a more favourable view of the DLA test. “My sense was if you just looked at disability living allowance, that doesn’t reach the same absolute. The test is not about ‘can you work or can’t you work’, it is looking at your condition.

You can read the full interview in the Guardian

I suggest that everyone reads the full article. Your quoted part is, as far as I can see, not quoted in the article as the actual words of IDS.

I suspect that the words are a mish mash of what IDS has says in the past and put together by journalists who have no idea of the currrent benefit system.

He does/says/ some stupid things but I cannot believe that he actually said this recently.

rogerblack

pmlindyloo wrote: »

He does/says/ some stupid things but I cannot believe that he actually said this recently.

It does seem odd.
A number of the phrases appear only once, triggered by the guardian article on google.
"You are either too sick or you are not sick enough." - for example, as well as the "binary choice".

On balance - I think it likely he said it.
The whole piece is one of their 'saturday interviews'.

Does he actually know the difference - I'm certain.

Is it possible it may have been heavily mangled by editing - seems unlikely.

It doesn't seem consistent with what I recall of IDSs position at any point in the recent past either.
He's been heavily involved in the rollout of PIP.

I would do more research on this, but increasingly I can only read his utterances in a very harsh accent.

pmlindyloo

For anyone interested have just listened to an interview he did today with Iain Dale on LBC.

Got all the names correct in that one!

Galeeno

pmlindyloo wrote: »

For anyone interested have just listened to an interview he did today with Iain Dale on LBC.

Got all the names correct in that one!

He must have read them from a piece of paper

HB58

You mean he can read?? :shocked: