Taxpayers' Alliance: Cut pensioner benefits 'immediately'

michaels

Mistermeaner wrote: »

the answer is to cut the handouts to those who did not provision - doing the right things must pay

This has kind of widened out but I think in general it is better if the state provides only a basic safety net and then leave people to make their own provision above this. The state also trying to be some sort of what you put in affects what you get out pension/insurance scheme as well you makes everything to blurred. Although I agree for those who have already retired and planned on state provision changing the rules at this point is a unfair.

missyrichards

I dont even understand why this should be controversial, pensioner's benefits absolutely should be means tested. Younger people and families have had benefits cuts but for some reason (old people vote, lol) pensioners are protected from the cuts.

I don't get any benefits now and I am planning on retiring at 50 and I know that I won't want or need things like the winter fuel allowance. Why would someone who is well off need government help, it should be for the people who need assistance.

missyrichards

michaels wrote: »

My relatives spend the winter in sunnier climes but use their winter fuel allowance towards heating their swimming pool in the UK summer.

OMG, I just read back and this is really annoying! I would feel too guilty to accept the fuel allowance if I was in your parent's position.

Don't you lecture them about that?:D

CLAPTON

Nick_C wrote: »

And while we are it, take away free prescriptions for the over 60s. Another meaningless benefit for people who may not need it.

Being over retirement age does not, in itself, mean you have special needs and deserve favourable treatment.

90% of all prescriptions in England are free

ukcarper

missyrichards wrote: »

I dont even understand why this should be controversial, pensioner's benefits absolutely should be means tested. Younger people and families have had benefits cuts but for some reason (old people vote, lol) pensioners are protected from the cuts.

I don't get any benefits now and I am planning on retiring at 50 and I know that I won't want or need things like the winter fuel allowance. Why would someone who is well off need government help, it should be for the people who need assistance.

I'd agree that winter fuel etc should not be given to better off pensioners but using the same cut off point as for other benefits will disadvantage those just above further.

Nick_C

Sapphire wrote: »

The 'poorer pensioners' you mention are on the breadline. They are barely able to make ends meet after a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes.

I disagree. Pension Credit guarantees you an income of £151.20 per week after paying your rent. I think that allows people to live comfortably. At this level, I think people should get the extra benefits – WFA, free prescriptions etc.

Many people have to get by on much less than this. People on JSA have to manage on less than half that. £73.10. A friend of mine – a woman in her late 50s - was struggling on JSA for a couple of years. She couldn’t find work (very difficult at that age). But by being frugal she coped. She was delighted when she hit 60 and her income doubled. She could suddenly afford things that had previously been luxuries.

£151.20 after housing costs is more than one would be left with if after paying rent of £100 if working full time for minimum wage. And people going out to work have expenses that pensioners don’t have. Travel costs. Clothes for work. Lunches away from home.

Note that many not receiving pension credits but just receiving the state pension and perhaps a small extra pension are certainly not 'wealthy pensioners'.

Agreed. “Wealthy” was a poor choice of word as its meaning is imprecise. What I mean is wealthier, or better off, than people receiving Pension Credit.

What you'd apparently like to do is to condemn often vulnerable elderly people to a shockingly poor existence – so that they are barely able to manage. How nice.

Not at all. I think any sensible person can live comfortably on £150 a week after paying rent. Many people manage on far less.

Given the very low state pension given to people in this country, means testing should be at a higher level (say £30,000 p.a.) than just at basic state-pension level.

I completely disagree. People with £30,000 a year do not need WFA, free bus passes, and free prescriptions. A pensioner with a gross income of £30K has roughly the same net income as a worker in a pension scheme with a salary of £35K. But of course the worker also has the cost of working (travel, clothes, lunches).

Free prescriptions should not be taken away from the over 60s – even much younger people who need to take a medicine regularly receive it free.

If someone qualifies for free prescriptions on other grounds then of course they should continue to receive free prescriptions beyond 60. I’m not saying older people should be discriminated against. Simply that we should stop treating them more favourably simply because they are old.

As for this statement: 'Being over retirement age does not, in itself, mean you have special needs and deserve favourable treatment,' I find it rather callous, given how many elderly people actually do need and deserve special treatment – something I'm sure you'll expect when you become old.

I disagree. I think it’s a simple statement of fact. Many people over pensionable age are fit and healthy and have no special needs. Special needs should be addressed through assessment, not merely based on date of birth. And they are. Through disability benefits and support from local authorities and the NHS. If people need and deserve special treatment then of course they should get it, but by throwing money at a class of people based only on age, we are giving state funds to some people who don’t need it.

In these recent times of austerity, everyone has suffered. Everyone except pensioners.

Elderly people are human beings and many are extremely vulnerable. It's a pity that such an uncaring attitude has developed towards them these days, especially given what many have had to go through in their lives, including real poverty and wars.

I care about the vulnerable and people with special needs. But we shouldn’t be handing out money to people who don’t need it.

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

Just out of interest, how old are you?

It’s irrelevant to my views on this issue, as they are based on what is right for the country, not what is best for me personally. But since you asked I’m 58.

patanne wrote: »

If they stop free prescriptions for the over 60s we will actually end up paying more than the under 60s do. A regular prescription for the under 60s is for 2 months but once you hit 60 they will only prescribe one month at a time.

If you need regular prescriptions you can buy a season ticket which works out at £2 a week.

In two years time when I hit 60, my income in real terms will be no different to what it is now. Why should I suddenly stop paying for a prescription? The retirement age is being raised to 68. Why should someone in work and earning a good salary get free medication?

ukcarper wrote: »

Many pensioners who made some effort to provide for their own future are worse off than people who made no effort at all and doing as you suggest would make matters worse.

My understanding is that the Pension Credit safety net protects anyone, including people with savings and small private pensions. So I don’t see how people who have made provision for their own retirement are worse off than those who didn’t. They may be no better off, and I agree that this is wrong. This is being addressed through the pensions reforms that are now taking place, but it will take time to remove this unfairness. If you can provide an example where someone would be worse off then I would be happy to be proved wrong.

ukcarper wrote: »

I'd agree that winter fuel etc should not be given to better off pensioners but using the same cut off point as for other benefits will disadvantage those just above further.

I think that this could be addressed in the Pension Credit calculation so that generally people are not worse off. You would need to evaluate and take account of the additional benefits.

ukcarper

Nick_C wrote: »

My understanding is that the Pension Credit safety net protects anyone, including people with savings and small private pensions. So I don’t see how people who have made provision for their own retirement are worse off than those who didn’t. They may be no better off, and I agree that this is wrong. This is being addressed through the pensions reforms that are now taking place, but it will take time to remove this unfairness. If you can provide an example where someone would be worse off then I would be happy to be proved wrong.



I think that this could be addressed in the Pension Credit calculation so that generally people are not worse off. You would need to evaluate and take account of the additional benefits.

If your small private pension takes you over pension credit by a couple of pounds you loss free dental treatment, vouchers towards your glasses and cold weather payment this can mean that someone on pension credit is better off than someone just above adding WFA etc will compound it.

lisyloo

A regular prescription for the under 60s is for 2 months

Really?
2 of mine are for 6 months each (I'm ill enough to get them free though even though I don't need that benefit - no I don't feel guilty, I work by the rules tht are in place).

lisyloo

the answer is to cut the handouts to those who did not provision - doing the right things must pay

What a load of rubbish.
Those who didn't provision during the 1930's did so because they were worried about how much food they had to eat.
Don't you have any parents/grandparents?

CLAPTON

lisyloo wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.
Those who didn't provision during the 1930's did so because they were worried about how much food they had to eat.
Don't you have any parents/grandparents?

some-one of 'contribution ' age (say at least 15 years old ) in 1930 would now be 100 years old. Probably not too many people to worry about