Lying estate agents & seller

project_c

Cherry_Gale wrote: »

So you, the vendor, and the estate agent have invested time and/or money in this sale of property+new lease, and it would be to the best if it went ahead.

If it fails due to this lease issue, the EA will have to find a new buyer. Now that they are aware of the lease length and the vendor not going to renew, they won't be able to claim ignorance, and will have to state '66 year lease'. Even if some naive buyer thinks this is ok, their mortgage lender probably won't! Even assuming a cash buyer, happy to proceed, the EA will have wasted their time preparing the sale to you, as will the vendor with solicitors fees.

I'm wondering why the vendor doesn't want to renew the lease - do they not have time? (surely it will take them longer to sell without!) Do they not have the money up front? (can their solicitors do something clever with a contract to take the money from the sale?)

I'm wondering the same thing - I wish I could give you an answer, but the estate agents are ignoring my emails (for weeks now) and not returning my calls, so they are definitely up to no good.

On top of this both my solicitor and the vendor's solicitor appear to be slower than snails. it's virtually impossible to get anything out of them in under a week.

project_c

AdrianC wrote: »

So the vendor's told the EA that the place will be sold with a new lease. The EA have passed that on. The vendor's not told their solicitor yet.

Where's the lying? Where's the misrepresentation?

I only have the EA's word for that, no actual proof. I have no idea why they would, but they are continuously ignoring my calls and emails - they are up to something for sure. This has been going on for more than 2 months, why would the vendor 'forget' to tell his solicitor to renew? The solicitor knows about the sale of the flat, he should know about the lease.

AdrianC wrote: »

Umm, no. The price of the property, as agreed, was on the basis of a new lease (I presume there was a duration quoted on that?). Just because they haven't been instructed to renew the lease yet doesn't mean that isn't the deal.

The advert for the property clearly states that it "will be sold with a new lease". The agents confirmed this verbally during viewings, and then again via email once we found out how low the lease was. I have both the email and the advert right here. This is no 'misunderstanding', somebody is clearly doing something shady.

Either the EA is lying, or the vendor changed his mind when he found out the cost of the lease (unlikely as he already knew about it), or the vendor's solicitor is incompetent. What else can it be?

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I wouldn't assume the agents are "up to something" because they don't return your calls; they may well be just common or garden incompetent. Many solicitors are also aggravatingly slow to respond; there are countless threads on this board ranting about this.

Many sales fall through because the searches reveal something unpleasant; it's not really money lost, it's saving you in the long term and is something that has to be factored into property buying unfortuantely. You're now chain free which puts you in a strong position going forward now at least.

AdrianC

project_c wrote: »

I only have the EA's word for that, no actual proof.

Yet you seem happy to ascribe proof of the exact opposite.

This has been going on for more than 2 months, why would the vendor 'forget' to tell his solicitor to renew? The solicitor knows about the sale of the flat, he should know about the lease.

The solicitor knows what his customer - the vendor - has told him.

The advert for the property clearly states that it "will be sold with a new lease". The agents confirmed this verbally during viewings, and then again via email once we found out how low the lease was. I have both the email and the advert right here

Which is what their customer - the vendor - have told them.

Either the EA is lying, or the vendor changed his mind when he found out the cost of the lease (unlikely as he already knew about it), or the vendor's solicitor is incompetent. What else can it be?

The vendor is extending the lease using a different solicitor?
The vendor is extending the lease, but hasn't instructed any solicitor?
The vendor is extending the lease, but just hasn't actually instructed the solicitor about it yet?
The vendor is extending the lease, but it's being done through a different fee-earner at the solicitors, and they're being treated as separate matters?

You seem to forget one thing - until contracts are exchanged, the sale can be pulled by either side for any or no reason. You do not have to buy the place if the lease is not extended. There is no penalty for you backing out. Your solicitor has done what you employed him for - he has discovered the exact legal situation behind the lease, so you can proceed - or not - in full knowledge of the facts.

Jhoney_2

So ask your solicitor to confirm the lease renewal with vendor solicitor and then place his work on hold. You think EA/vendor are lying or doing something shady' - so why are you spending extra time and money playing detective?

You can always move on and start viewing other properties until the matter is resolved to your satisfaction.

project_c

Thanks for all the advice and replies, everyone, even if I don't fully agree with all your points I appreciate the input.

I have an update on this - the agent has finally come back to say they spoke to the vendor, who has decided they want us to pay more money for the property. The agent said they were apparently being honest in their advert - the vendor is basically being greedy on the basis that they realised they have to spend 17K to renew their lease.

Interestingly, the agent told me that the vendor was "shocked" at how much it would cost to extend, hence the sudden change in heart. However, I have written evidence that they were quoted a similar figure back in 2014, so there should have been nothing shocking about this at this stage. Bit of dishonesty there, without a doubt.

So now we have a choice - go above our already stretched budget by a few more thousand, and get the flat with a new lease - OR - walk away and find another place to live, bit further out of town, but for a more reasonable amount.

I will also add that I found all this out by making many phone calls, whilst my solicitor has been nowhere near her office since last thursday.

moneyistooshorttomention

Well - you've now been told an absolute outright blatant lie - ie the "shocked" at how much to extend lease. Despite vendor knowing very well a while back what it would cost.

Personally - I think you're best off out of it and forget this place with its lying little vendor and lying little EA. Time to cut losses and pat self on back for being more honest than those little toerags.

matttye

You have no binding agreement until contracts are exchanged. The seller is perfectly entitled to change their mind about the lease and you have no grounds to sue as you don't have a binding agreement.

In other words either party can change any of the terms before contracts are exchanged. You could say "Actually I'm only going to pay £50,000 for this property rather than £120,000" and the seller could either accept or reject the new price - but they'd have no grounds to sue you because you changed your mind.

Misrepresentation would be telling you that it has three bedrooms when it only has two. What they have done is either a communication breakdown, or the seller has changed his mind about the lease - either way you can't sue.

kinger101

If you've already spent all the money on surveys, mortgage application, searches etc, you could always try a gazunder. Probably best to walk away though.

project_c

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Well - you've now been told an absolute outright blatant lie - ie the "shocked" at how much to extend lease. Despite vendor knowing very well a while back what it would cost.

Personally - I think you're best off out of it and forget this place with its lying little vendor and lying little EA. Time to cut losses and pat self on back for being more honest than those little toerags.

I am about 99% sure this is what we will do - the vendor is going to have to extend the lease whatever happens, nobody will buy that flat with a 66 year lease, plus she has already given notice to her tenants, so she will lose money while she has to find another buyer. We won't agree to pay any more. Even if they're legally entitled to change their minds and up the price etc, if they are this casual about lying, god knows what other hidden problems we might discover if we move into this place.