Conflicted on solar

Martyn1981

hiddenshadow wrote: »

No shading issues (one benefit to having a 3-story house :cool:).

They just had the standard shpiel about enphase (and the micro-inverters) being better because each panel gets its own inverter and can thus have multiple points of failure (vs. a single inverter). Didn't actually offer anything beyond 1 inverter or enphase micro-inverters, but the price for 1 inverter was still £6,250, I believe.

Hi. Is the £6,250 and the £7k the same guys, just inverter v's micros?

£750 or 10% seems like a tough call for the micro's if there isn't any shading. I don't know much about enphase, but not sure if 10%+ is possible, and if not, then the micros would be a worse deal.

Mart.

hiddenshadow

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hi. Is the £6,250 and the £7k the same guys, just inverter v's micros?

£750 or 10% seems like a tough call for the micro's if there isn't any shading. I don't know much about enphase, but not sure if 10%+ is possible, and if not, then the micros would be a worse deal.

Mart.

Yes, same company.

pinnks

Just took a quick look at the usual retail website and micro inverters would run at about £1200 retail if I have picked the right ones. Then the additional labour time to fit them (not massive but...) and £750 reduction seems too little unless the inverter price swings it the other way.

hiddenshadow

pinnks wrote: »

Just took a quick look at the usual retail website and micro inverters would run at about £1200 retail if I have picked the right ones. Then the additional labour time to fit them (not massive but...) and £750 reduction seems too little unless the inverter price swings it the other way.

Yes, good point. Found them (Enphase M125 according to the brochure) on eb@y for 85-100/inverter, so that alone would be £1,360-£1,600. (Presumably they can get them cheaper wholesale, but half price?)

Supposed to get the full quote via e-mail tomorrow, so will confirm the numbers and potentially follow-up to ask what the price would be to match the £5,900 quote with dual inverters.

pinnks

But the bigger question is whether it is worth the risk of having more kit on the roof for more cost and little real gains in production - more to go wrong and similar arguments made by many on this forum. If you really want to go micro inverter, I think SMA does them now but others will correct me if I am wrong. Then there is SolarEdge and power optimisers but again I expect the experts on here will question the value and need for any of these if you have no shade issues.

EricMears

hiddenshadow wrote: »

. . . . . . He also mentioned a battery system that's meant to be on the market next spring (also from enphase?) that would supposedly store energy for a week's use, allowing you to be completely off-grid (at least for electricity).

I do hope that happens - but not holding my breath ! I'd need something in excess of 100kWh of storage for a week which would cost around £60,000 if I bought the batteries from VW. No doubt other suppliers would easily beat that price but I don't think anyone is offering affordable new batteries for that sort of application.

ely_ellis

As mentioned above, micro-inverters without shading issues seems a pointless added expense.
Other than getting more money out of you for them there would be no benefit or little benefit to you.
However, I didn't think I had any shading issues at all, but I still went for SE because I like the idea of individual panel monitoring. As it happens it was the best choice I could have made as I later discovered that I DO have shading issues, very unexpected.
But if you are 100% sure there are no shading issues, then why micro-inverters? Maybe ask them why they think you need them.

johorrocks

Hi I've just been reading the discussion on micro inverters.
I work in the industry and believe in giving the customer a true reflection of the types of products and solutions available sharing the good points and bad points for both string, optimisers and micro inverters
Micro inverters are by far a better system than string inverters for a variety of reasons. But they do come at a premium.
For some customers it maybe the only option really available to them depending on there requirements.
I've explained below a few reasons to why customers may still choose to invest in micro inverters even if they are perfect south with no shading or other factors.

Firstly each panel is optimised to be working at peak performance so you don't have the same impact from shading, debris, mismatched panels. Shading can be from obvious things such as trees but even clouds in the sky effect the solar panels.
Secondly you can see what each and every panel is doing at anyone time, they are normally remotely monitored by the solar installation company so if you do have an issue it is quickly rectified less down time.
They would know exactly what panel or inverter was not working.
They come with a 20 year product warranty normally 10 years more than a standard string inverter.
They convert DC to AC on your roof so it's much less risk of fire hazards.
You can have multiple panel sizes and and models enabling future proof life of your system.
You can add on to system at a later point one panel at a time if you wanted to. Giving you totally flexibility.
They aren't just for customers with shading or multiple roofs.
From experience most customers when presented with the information on how string inverters work optimisers and micro inverters work would indeed choose them as their solution. The price of course is a massive factor but having said that the £7000 that you have been quoted is a very competitive price and I would seriously consider that as your solution.
.

zeupater

johorrocks wrote: »

Hi I've just been reading the discussion on micro inverters.
I work in the industry and believe in giving the customer a true reflection of the types of products and solutions available sharing the good points and bad points for both string, optimisers and micro inverters
Micro inverters are by far a better system than string inverters for a variety of reasons. But they do come at a premium.
For some customers it maybe the only option really available to them depending on there requirements.
I've explained below a few reasons to why customers may still choose to invest in micro inverters even if they are perfect south with no shading or other factors.

Firstly each panel is optimised to be working at peak performance so you don't have the same impact from shading, debris, mismatched panels. Shading can be from obvious things such as trees but even clouds in the sky effect the solar panels.
Secondly you can see what each and every panel is doing at anyone time, they are normally remotely monitored by the solar installation company so if you do have an issue it is quickly rectified less down time.
They would know exactly what panel or inverter was not working.
They come with a 20 year product warranty normally 10 years more than a standard string inverter.
They convert DC to AC on your roof so it's much less risk of fire hazards.
You can have multiple panel sizes and and models enabling future proof life of your system.
You can add on to system at a later point one panel at a time if you wanted to. Giving you totally flexibility.
They aren't just for customers with shading or multiple roofs.
From experience most customers when presented with the information on how string inverters work optimisers and micro inverters work would indeed choose them as their solution. The price of course is a massive factor but having said that the £7000 that you have been quoted is a very competitive price and I would seriously consider that as your solution.
.

Hi

And what are your thoughts related to the multiplying effect on the overall system MTBF, access implications & labour costs, insurance backing for the warranty for sunsetted product portfolios and/or manufacturers folding etc ?? ....

I'm one of the set 'most customers' and fully understand how "optimisers and micro inverters work" and what their benefits are .... however, I must be in the minority then, because I chose not to have them ....

Anyway, thanks for providing the ... :rotfl: ... reading the post ("Shading can be from obvious things such as trees but even clouds in the sky effect the solar panels") I had a vision of the generation effect a 1.7mx1m raincloud stubbornly sitting exactly above one of the panels on one of my MPPTs in an otherwise cloudless sky, drooling in awe at the performance difference optimisers/microinverters would make ..... but then again, how many times do you come across static, low level 1.7mx1m clouds in an otherwise clear blue sky ? ... :cool:

"Future proof" ? .... you'd be surprised by how many bits of technology we've all got tucked away in dark dusty corners of cupboards, drawers, garages and lofts which have claimed to be that over the years ....

Z

## Edit ... By the way, welcome to the forum !! ....

tunnel

johorrocks wrote: »

The price of course is a massive factor but having said that the £7000 that you have been quoted is a very competitive price and I would seriously consider that as your solution.

Wow, Being the industry insider...it wouldn't be you giving that quote by any chance would it?
Micros are for shading, why else would you invent something that works for each panel rather than a string? Why put up to 16 bits of kit(that could go wrong) on your roof if you don't need to?....crazy....and unnecessary.