Is using auto start-stop bad?

WellKnownSid

A._Badger wrote: »

In the current climate, where car design is so heavily influenced by legislation, it doesn't seem at all far fetched for poor engineering decisions to be induced by the need to meet government targets.

Yes, but not the decisions you think, and not for the reasons you think.

It probably hasn't escaped people that VW - largest car manufacturer in the world, with I expect one of the largest R&D budgets in the world - probably has one of the smallest ranges of hybrid / EV vehicles in the world.

The flaw in the decision is not whether or not they should have stop / start - but whether they should have dropped diesel development altogether.

And it wasn't driven by Governments - they actually fought governments to try and steer away from EV tech. Why? Because electric cars don't need servicing. Brakes don't wear out (regent braking). No oil to change. Motor manufacturers sell new cars, but live off the servicing and parts revenues.

So you are partially right, they do make dysfunctional decisions - but they are more fundemental than which emission control technology they apply.

Zandoni

WellKnownSid wrote: »

I'm not aware of any modern engine that has a choke...

Nor I'm I, but that doesn't mean they don't have extra fuel injected when cold.

A._Badger

WellKnownSid wrote: »

Yes, but not the decisions you think, and not for the reasons you think.

It probably hasn't escaped people that VW - largest car manufacturer in the world, with I expect one of the largest R&D budgets in the world - probably has one of the smallest ranges of hybrid / EV vehicles in the world.

The flaw in the decision is not whether or not they should have stop / start - but whether they should have dropped diesel development altogether.



So you are partially right, they do make dysfunctional decisions - but they are more fundemental than which emission control technology they apply.

As seems common on this forum you seem so obsessed by winning an argument that you have wandered completely off course. The question isn't about diesel development, electric cars or anything else. It is about stop/start, the introduction of which was brought about by the need to meet legislation. If you do not believe that then any further discussion is pointless.

Whether its introduction is good or bad in all or some cases has yet to be conclusively proven either way, but it is not at all unlikely that it will prove problematical over the lifespan of at least some vehicles. Adding complexity to a system often achieves that and little else.

WellKnownSid

Zandoni wrote: »

Nor I'm I, but that doesn't mean they don't have extra fuel injected when cold.

How often have you actually flooded a car in the last 20 years?

Zandoni

WellKnownSid wrote: »

How often have you actually flooded a car in the last 20 years?

The fact that you easily flood an old car has very little relevance to engine wear.

Perhaps you can show me a few links that support your point that modern engines do not wear more when cold.

WellKnownSid

Zandoni wrote: »

The fact that you easily flood an old car has very little relevance to engine wear.

Perhaps you can show me a few links that support your point that modern engines do not wear more when cold.

Quod erat demonstrandum...

Gloomendoom

A._Badger wrote: »

That's not much of an argument. The history of car design is littered with examples of manufacturers making just such mistakes. Entire reputations have sometimes been put at risk - ask Mercedes.

Or Ford...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zKNBVVrWos

Zandoni

WellKnownSid wrote: »

Quod erat demonstrandum...

Apology accepted

NBLondon

I have it on my 2011 Focus and have stopped thinking about it (confusing a bit at first until I got used to it.) I don't know if it saves me compared to a standard Focus but it's an improvement on the Mondeo it replaced so that's what I wanted. I know where the off switch is if I saw a reason to use it.


I doubt it's doing any damage to the turbo since in the conditions where stop-start is in use; I'm seldom accelerating enough to warm the turbo up...

almillar

Bet it can't look ahead at the traffic situation and determine that the lights have just changed.

So you, as the driver, look ahead, and keep the clutch depressed, so that the engine won't stop. Use the system (don't ask me about autos!).

Keeping your foot on the clutch is bad for the clutch

It is very bad practice to sit with your foot on the clutch when stationary, it most defineately will cause damage to the release bearing if done to excess.

Then take your foot off the clutch. The car will then decide to stop the engine if appropriate. Either it's not long enough to let the engine stop, or it is. Why on earth would you want the engine to run for minutes when not needed?

Energy is energy & it comes from somewhere...does stop/start save fuel & emissions or is it a gimmick?

Of course it does! It's for long periods being stopped. That's wasted fuel if it's for any significant period of time, as long as the engine stays up to temp and umpteen other paramaters.
In cars without this technology, you can DIY of course...

I wonder if the Stop/Start skeptics live in places with less traffic than those who like it? It's definitely only useful for people who sit in queues.