Low Cost EPC £9.95 charge for cancellation

londonrob

Hi

I placed an order for an EPC with a company called Low Cost ECP but didn't have to pay anything up front. By the time they rang back the next day, I had decided to use somebody else, so cancelled the order on the phone. A few minutes later they sent me an email:

Our records indicate that you ordered an Energy Performance Certificate from us on 21/09/2015 and then subsequently cancelled your order. We are writing to advise you that you are required to pay for the service received up until the time of cancellation. The amount of £9.95 is now due as per the terms and conditions of the order. Please be advised that if payment is not received within 24 hours, a late payment administration charge of £14.95 will be added to the order as per the terms and conditions of the order. The above mentioned charge covers our reasonable costs associated with collecting outstanding monies. The amount charged is not proportionate to the amount outstanding.

I replied & told them that £9.95 for a 38 second phone conversation was an unreasonable charge & that I wouldn't be paying it. I got no response until 24 hours later, when I got another email:

You were given 24 hours with which to make this payment but payment has so far not been received. We advised that in the event payment was not received with 24 hours of the order being cancelled, a late payment charge of £14.95 would be added to the order. Unfortunately, as at the time of sending this email, this payment has not been received. We have therefore been left with no alternative but to apply a late payment charge of £14.95 to the order. This brings the total amount outstanding to £24.90. If payment remains outstanding by 29/09/2015 and in the event we need to write to you then a further administration charge of £50.00 will be added to cover our costs.

So far I haven't paid this, but I'm wondering what rights, if any, I have here. It seems that they are charging me £9.95 for a phone call, as if I'd cancelled the 'order' before they rang, there would have been no charge. Part of me is tempted to just pay it & forget about it, but part of me wants to fight them until they give up. I assume what they are doing is legal? Presumably somewhere in the process there was a link to their T&Cs which stated the cancellation policy, but how far can they push this? If I just continue to ignore them, could they end up taking me to the small claims court, sending debt collectors around, affecting my credit rating etc.?

Would appreciate any comments
cheers, Rob

Ectophile

It's in their Terms & Conditions http://www.lowcostepc.com/CustomerTermsConditions2.aspx

If it went to court, then the judge would have to decide whether the costs are fair and reasonable. If they are unfair, they could be set aside regardless of the T&Cs.

They could send debt collectors - but they have no legal powers to do anything but hassle you.

They would have to take you to court if you refused to pay. If you lost the court case, then you would have to pay up or it could lead to bailiffs and a bad credit rating. If you won the case, there would be nothing they could do.

unholyangel

OP has the right to cancel under CCRs.

And if the company has not complied with CCRs (such as telling OP they'd be liable for costs incurred if they cancelled after the service began) then the company have no claim to even the £9.95.

(6) The consumer bears no cost for supply of the service, in full or in part, in the cancellation period, if—

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or
(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

And paragraph (1) just for completeness:

36.—(1) The trader must not begin the supply of a service before the end of the cancellation period provided for in regulation 30(1) unless the consumer—

(a)has made an express request, and
(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, has made the request on a durable medium.

londonrob

Thank you both, much appreciated. Since posting I did some research & realise I have fallen for an infamous scammer, Christopher Whatcott - a quick Google of his name, plus 'scam' finds plenty of sites dedicated to his activities. All these sites refer to the fact that he will continue to send out threatening emails, and may even resort to issuing court summons, but will always back off at the last minute & not actually proceed with a case, so I feel pretty confident in simply ignoring his future emails

I have responded to today's pointing out that under Distance Selling Regulations I have 14 days in which to cancel, and advising him that I won't be paying anything & that I don't wish him to pursue me any further.

wealdroam

The very last line on that T&Cs page linked to by Ectophile is worthy of note:

Low Cost EPC is a trading style of Savi.co.uk (uk) Limited and is located at Business and Technology Centre, Bessemer Drive, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2DX.

Although it doesn't specifically mention lowcostepc by name, this lengthy thread forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5065423 has some good advice in it about the Savi business' other trading names.

There is a campaigner kev100 on that thread that you might like to contact on firstchoiceepcscam@gmail.com.

This Energy Assessor Magazine article also makes interesting reading, and also mentions that above email address.

There are other EAM articles worth reading too.

wealdroam

londonrob wrote: »

I have responded to today's pointing out that under Distance Selling Regulations I have 14 days in which to cancel, and advising him that I won't be paying anything & that I don't wish him to pursue me any further.

it's not Distance Selling Regulations any more. Replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 last year, although the principle remains the same in the context you mention. It really is good to get these small points right as otherwise the other party might get the impression you don't know what you are talking about.

londonrob

Thanks for both of these! Yes I've found a plethora of stuff online about his companies, though the link to the MSE article you posted doesn't work for me?

I have updated my response, so he doesn't think I'm an idiot

wealdroam

londonrob wrote: »

...the link to the MSE article you posted doesn't work for me?.

No, it doesn't work for me either.

Now corrected.

londonrob

ah that looks a great thread - cheers for updating!

kev100_2

Hi, Just thought I would jump in here

I have written a blog about Chris Whatcott and his scam's, firstchoiceepc, saviepc and now lowcostepc (amongst others) .. there is a recurring theme to scam, threaten, intimidate people into paying up for something they have not received.

First thing I will tell you is that Whatcott tries to frighten people into paying up by using threats debt collectors and court summons. These are meaningless threats, the last thing Whatcott wants to do is end up in front of a judge as his scam will legally be uncovered.

Not one person has he successfully taken to court and won, he tried with us, we defended and counter claimed, and he dropped the case, even after some very nasty intimidating threats (you can read about it in my blog)

Advice is

1, contact Action Fraud police and report him
2, contact Hertfordshire trading standards and report it
3, contact CAB and report it
4, Ignore any and all threats from Whatcott
5, If you get a court summons (he does issue them as a tool to frighten people to pay up) then defend it.
6, If he has taken any money from your account either knowingly or unknowingly and has not performed a service then call you bank and make a chargeback claim (you need to keep chasing your bank and insisting they do the chargeback as banks are useless at this)
7 Read up on the distance selling cancellation regulation, specifically for off premises contracts as these are the only ones that are in force read from Regulation 27 here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made

His terms and conditions are very clever .. there is a lot more going on in them that most people know about.. the statutory cancellation period does not apply in this case if he has followed several regulations and you implicitly request the service starts immediately, and this is usually once you press the confirm order button. However this does not give him the right to charges and not perform the service and for you to expect to get extra charges if this is the case. (again regulation here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made)

Lastly anybody reading this STAY AWAY FROM WHATCOTT .. he is a serial scammer with many companies in his tracks, same scam different clothes.

You can find a lot of info here http://epcscam.weebly.com/untitled/april-10th-2015 (read the comments)

Our case was reported here http://energyassessormagazine.com/panel_admit_charges_were_wrong.html

And a report on saviepc (his previous site that he has just moved from to lowcostepc) here http://energyassessormagazine.com/ts_controversy_over_panel.html

Lastly .. do not be intimidated by him.

unholyangel

kev100 wrote: »

Hi, Just thought I would jump in here

I have written a blog about Chris Whatcott and his scam's, firstchoiceepc, saviepc and now lowcostepc (amongst others) .. there is a recurring theme to scam, threaten, intimidate people into paying up for something they have not received.

First thing I will tell you is that Whatcott tries to frighten people into paying up by using threats debt collectors and court summons. These are meaningless threats, the last thing Whatcott wants to do is end up in front of a judge as his scam will legally be uncovered.

Not one person has he successfully taken to court and won, he tried with us, we defended and counter claimed, and he dropped the case, even after some very nasty intimidating threats (you can read about it in my blog)

Advice is

1, contact Action Fraud police and report him
2, contact Hertfordshire trading standards and report it
3, contact CAB and report it
4, Ignore any and all threats from Whatcott
5, If you get a court summons (he does issue them as a tool to frighten people to pay up) then defend it.
6, If he has taken any money from your account either knowingly or unknowingly and has not performed a service then call you bank and make a chargeback claim (you need to keep chasing your bank and insisting they do the chargeback as banks are useless at this)
7 Read up on the distance selling cancellation regulation, specifically for off premises contracts as these are the only ones that are in force Regulation 27 here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made

His terms and conditions are very clever .. there is a lot more going on in them that most people know about.. the statutory cancellation period does not apply in this case if he has followed several regulations and the amount is below £42. However this does not give him the right to charges and not perform the service and for you to expect a refund. (again regulation 27 here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made)

Lastly anybody reading this STAY AWAY FROM WHATCOTT .. he is a serial scammer with many companies in his tracks, same scam different clothes.

You can find a lot of info here http://epcscam.weebly.com/untitled/april-10th-2015 (read the comments)

Our case was reported here http://energyassessormagazine.com/panel_admit_charges_were_wrong.html

And a report on saviepc (his previous site that he has just moved from to lowcostepc) here http://energyassessormagazine.com/ts_controversy_over_panel.html

Lastly .. do not be intimidated by him.

I admit I didnt read all of your post, but the bit in bold caught my attention.

I think you'll find that the CCR's exemption for contracts under £42 in value are for off-premises contracts only and is not relevant for distance contracts.

“off-premises contract” means a contract between a trader and a consumer which is any of these—
(a)a contract concluded in the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, in a place which is not the business premises of the trader;
(b)a contract for which an offer was made by the consumer in the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, in a place which is not the business premises of the trader;
(c)a contract concluded on the business premises of the trader or through any means of distance communication immediately after the consumer was personally and individually addressed in a place which is not the business premises of the trader in the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer;
(d)a contract concluded during an excursion organised by the trader with the aim or effect of promoting and selling goods or services to the consumer;