Changing details of a will if it's a joint one

class2ldn

Hi all, been trying to get hold of my solicitor but no luck so wanted ask here.
I've had a bit of advice about joint tenants and tenants in common so I understand the difference but I do have a question.
The mortgage we have taken out is under joint tenants but I have an 8 year old daughter from a previous relationship.
Me and my partner are not married but we are engaged to be so hopefully sometime next year.
My issue is that obviously if I die it reverts to my partner automatically but can we draw up a joint will to say that upon her death (if last) the property passes to my daughter.
I know we could do tenants in common but I don't want my daughter having to force my partner to sell to get her share
On the other hand i dont want my daughter missing out which Is why I wanted to draw up a joint will between me and my partner so it reverts to my daughter when my partner dies.
What then happens if say I die and my daughter turns out to be a ####. This has happened to my mate and his daughter is completely written out of the will.
Can my partner change the will without me if it was a joint one?
I want her to receive our house but not if it all goes Pete tong.
Obviously as long as I'm still alive then it's not a problem but just thinking about my mate and what he's done.
I hate having to think about that and I'm sure she won't but best it's sorted sooner then later.
Cheers

class2ldn

I guess as it's joint it sort of defeats the object if she can then change it lol. In court she probably could but that's not a road she would want to go down no doubt.
Maybe it's best to hold fire for a little while and just do a joint will to say my daughter gets the property when my partner dies or gets my share if she remarries.
Only 32 so hopefully not something to consider yet and will be able to make a judgement once my daughter is older.
I don't want her inheriting my share if she doesn't deserve it when she's older.
Like I say there's no evidence she will as she's only 8 but just trying to protect both my partner and daughter.

G6JNS

class2ldn wrote: »

I guess as it's joint it sort of defeats the object if she can then change it lol. In court she probably could but that's not a road she would want to go down no doubt.
Maybe it's best to hold fire for a little while and just do a joint will to say my daughter gets the property when my partner dies or gets my share if she remarries.
Only 32 so hopefully not something to consider yet and will be able to make a judgement once my daughter is older.
I don't want her inheriting my share if she doesn't deserve it when she's older.
Like I say there's no evidence she will as she's only 8 but just trying to protect both my partner and daughter.

It really is too complex a matter to rely on advice from here. You both needs advice from a solicitor ASAP. Don't put it off as disasters can occasionally happen.

class2ldn

Oh no we won't, both off for a week next week so we'll get a meeting booked in.

System

As the house is joint tenants then it does not fall into the estate of the first to die. Even with a joint will there is nothing stopping the survivor making a new will thus voiding the remaining part of the joint will

class2ldn

Right so basically the only way I can ensure my daughter gets my share is to break the joint tenancy and go tenants in common?

Savvy_Sue

class2ldn wrote: »

Right so basically the only way I can ensure my daughter gets my share is to break the joint tenancy and go tenants in common?

Yes. And you should get advice from a solicitor about that, because while you may want to allow your partner to remain in the house for the rest of their life, you may also want to allow them to move without having to give your DD 'her share' of the proceeds. And as this will hopefully not happen for a number of years yet, you may do better to review your wills at regular intervals.

Also note that a will becomes invalid on marriage, unless it is made 'in contemplation of marriage', and I'm not sure for how long the contemplation is expected to go on.

izoomzoom

Changing the tenancy on our home from joint to common cost less about £70, and it was done inside a week.

I did call around numerous solicitors and was given quotes in excess of £250.

We then went onto leaving our portions to our children, so that there is no sideways disinheritence.

Savvy_Sue

BTW, what you may be looking at is 'mirror wills': this is where each will says the same: yours could be something like "I leave my half of the house to DD and everything else to my other half, and if other half dies before me DD gets the lot, and if DD dies before me then other half gets the lot." Your other half's would say "I leave my half of the house to other half's DD and everything else to my other half, and if other half dies before me other half's DD gets the lot, and if other half's DD dies before me then other half gets the lot."

A good solicitor would go through the various 'what if' questions with you: what if you have children of the marriage, what if both die before you, what if etc.

Mirror wills can be changed at any time by either party. However if half the house doesn't automatically pass to the other half on your death, then they can't will your half of the house away from your DD.

I think with your DD only being 8, it would be best to assume that you'll remain on good terms. Wills need to be reviewed at regular intervals in any case (says the lady who spent the last 15 years saying "we must update our wills" and finally did it earlier this year ...) If, in 10 years time, it is clear that your DD is not a suitable recipient of any part of your estate, you write her out of your will, with a covering letter explaining why. Unless you live in Scotland that would take care of things.

However, IF you feel you have to do that, do make sure you review your will if things change. We have seen some very sad threads on here from children who had been estranged but were back in touch and quite close by the time a parent died, but in the meantime they'd been written out of the will.

I believe there is also something called mutual wills (may be something else) which are binding on both parties. However these probably aren't a good idea, even if they sound like it at the moment, because there are so many 'what if' scenarios which can't be foreseen at this stage. I don't think they're used so much these days.

getmore4less

Joint wills(also know as Mutual) can't be changed but have issues that make them impractical in many cases.

The standard approach is mirror will with a life interest trust with the daughter as the eventual benificiary, where the life tenat is responsible for the upkeep of the property.

but even that has issue.
eg. the OH could live a very long time and your daughter sees noththing till she is too old to do anything with it.

You will need to get independant advice to go over all the issues.

the things you can research to help with the understanding when you speak to someone.

Mirror wills
Mutual wills
life interest
Joint tenant/TIC (done that)
then there are the tax issues to do with IHT and CGT which may become an issue as(if) your joint estate grows.

System

A joint will is different to a mutual will. They are not one and the same

From HMRC

IHTM12062 - Succession: Wills: Joint and mutual Wills: Joint Wills

This is where two or more people record their testamentary wishes by executing a single instrument, which then operates as their separate Wills on the deaths of each of them. In practice this type of Will is extremely rare and is only likely to be used to exercise a joint power of appointment or where a mutual Will (IHTM12063) is made as a joint and mutual Will.


IHTM12063 - Succession: Wills: Joint and mutual Wills: Mutual Wills

This is where two or more people each agree to execute a separate Will disposing of their property in a particular way. The terms of each Will are usually identical or very similar and give reciprocal benefits - for instance, a husband, wife or civil partner (IHTM11032) may leave property to each other with the same provision if the other should die before they do.

But this in itself is not sufficient to constitute a mutual Will. There must be an arrangement or agreement to make such Wills (with or without an agreement not to revoke them without the consent of the other(s)).