Builder changing quote

System

MisterBaxter wrote: »

snip

the formal contract sums are written excluding VAT as this is a tax set outside of the scope of the contract, i.e the government could change VAT tomorrow and it would be applied to payments at the new rate - it is not defined by the contract

Stevie_Palimo

the_r_sole wrote: »

when you are starting out it is impossible to know exactly when you will hit the VAT threshold so for a time it puts you in an advantage against your competitors, but if you hit the threshold you have to charge it - I never lost a job for being honest about my VAT situation!

I'm not disagreeing with the law or correct way about doing things I am stating that in my opinion if anyone quotes me for work being done and had a note stating vat may or may not be charged subject to change and without given notice I would steer well clear and expect a quote to be made and stuck to with or without the vat and not a surprise gift of added costs after work has commenced.

System

Stevie_Palimo wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with the law or correct way about doing things I am stating that in my opinion if anyone quotes me for work being done and had a note stating vat may or may not be charged subject to change and without given notice I would steer well clear and expect a quote to be made and stuck to with or without the vat and not a surprise gift of added costs after work has commenced.

so you would rather definitely pay 20% more?
never had a single job where that preference was stated, and most of my customers were happy that I had mentioned this fact to them and asked if it was likely to happen during their job.
The cost of the services are still the same, its just that I didnt want to be collecting money for the government until it was a necessity - would you expect someone to take a 20% reduction in their payment because the government has imposed vat registration on them? or would you expect them to build it in, so charge 20% more in case they are forced to register?

Stevie_Palimo

the_r_sole wrote: »

so you would rather definitely pay 20% more?
never had a single job where that preference was stated, and most of my customers were happy that I had mentioned this fact to them and asked if it was likely to happen during their job.
The cost of the services are still the same, its just that I didnt want to be collecting money for the government until it was a necessity - would you expect someone to take a 20% reduction in their payment because the government has imposed vat registration on them? or would you expect them to build it in, so charge 20% more in case they are forced to register?

I did not say this :-


What I expect when asking for services is a price and not half way through oh btw we are now adding an extra 20% due to VAT as we are too incompetent to be able to notify you at the beginning of the work that your money will take us over the minimum threshold.


This boils down to laziness and incompetence as you should when running a business know exactly where you are figure wise and cannot lumber someone with an added bill just because you are too stupid to keep an eye things.


If I leant you a £1000.00 as a family member and then half way through paying me back said by the way you owe me another grand as I have started a loan business you would say do one.

moneyistooshorttomention

It must be highly unusual for a firm to say "We may or may not add VAT on afterwards". I've never had it or heard of it. Its always been the case that they either say "We are too small for VAT - there wont be any VAT" or they say "We pay VAT and the price is £x plus VAT". With that - I've known where I stood at the outset and what the price is I am due to pay.

I should think a builder who tried to stick it on part way through a job being done at an agreed price would soon find himself on a sticky wicket at getting any recommendations. Obviously - friends etc will ask about any job done and there would be a dual response of "What I think about the job is x/y/z" BUT "He changed the quotation part way through. Stated reason being z. Wonder if that could really be true? At the least he's pretty darn incompetent at working out quotes" and I doubt friends would then employ a firm like that themselves.

System

Stevie_Palimo wrote: »

I did not say this :-


What I expect when asking for services is a price and not half way through oh btw we are now adding an extra 20% due to VAT as we are too incompetent to be able to notify you at the beginning of the work that your money will take us over the minimum threshold.


This boils down to laziness and incompetence as you should when running a business know exactly where you are figure wise and cannot lumber someone with an added bill just because you are too stupid to keep an eye things.


If I leant you a £1000.00 as a family member and then half way through paying me back said by the way you owe me another grand as I have started a loan business you would say do one.

Some of my jobs have run for 2-3 years, I have tens of jobs which run concurrently and take on new commissions all the time - there is a huge difference between being stupid and being a fortune teller - for example the time between quoting for a job and receiving the written appointment can sometimes be a few weeks, in that time you could have quoted for a few other jobs - you would always advise if you thought it was likely but in the first few years of establishing a business some things can be difficult to predict. (as an aside, in my third year of trading I got a short term consultancy contract where I made more in 6 weeks than I had in the previous two years, which came completely out of the blue)
But I guess I'm just incompetent. lazy and stupid eh?

System

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

It must be highly unusual for a firm to say "We may or may not add VAT on afterwards". I've never had it or heard of it. Its always been the case that they either say "We are too small for VAT - there wont be any VAT" or they say "We pay VAT and the price is £x plus VAT". With that - I've known where I stood at the outset and what the price is I am due to pay.

I should think a builder who tried to stick it on part way through a job being done at an agreed price would soon find himself on a sticky wicket at getting any recommendations. Obviously - friends etc will ask about any job done and there would be a dual response of "What I think about the job is x/y/z" BUT "He changed the quotation part way through. Stated reason being z. Wonder if that could really be true? At the least he's pretty darn incompetent at working out quotes" and I doubt friends would then employ a firm like that themselves.

it would only ever happen once, and in unfortunate circumstances - yes he should have known it was coming if he got this job and priced accordingly, small contractors and consultants tend to try and stay under the threshold to avoid the expense and hassle of the quarterly accountancy.

If the builder has to charge VAT on this job now and the op is not going to pay then I would expect the builder to walkaway from this job as a 20% pay cut will make it unprofitable

Stevie_Palimo

the_r_sole wrote: »

Some of my jobs have run for 2-3 years, I have tens of jobs which run concurrently and take on new commissions all the time - there is a huge difference between being stupid and being a fortune teller - for example the time between quoting for a job and receiving the written appointment can sometimes be a few weeks, in that time you could have quoted for a few other jobs - you would always advise if you thought it was likely but in the first few years of establishing a business some things can be difficult to predict. (as an aside, in my third year of trading I got a short term consultancy contract where I made more in 6 weeks than I had in the previous two years, which came completely out of the blue)
But I guess I'm just incompetent. lazy and stupid eh?

You are quite clearly failing to see the point I am making and or trying to be argumentative, A big difference between doing building work and work that lasts for 2-3 years.


It is rather very simple what I posted but only yourself choosing to pick faults so I'll try and be even clearer for you.


Builder please quote me for work.
Okay no problems £10.000 with no vat.
Me: good stuff please start in 2 weeks.
Builder: no problems starts work in 2 weeks and then half way through says btw I am increasing the costs due to the fact that I am that stupid and do not know what turnover I am on thus giving you an additional £2000.00 bill.
Me: Get away with ya you quoted me £10.000 not £12.000 but if my name was r_sole I'd just accept it as it is the way you believe business is carried out.


Yeh righto, Get a grip and when back in reality realise people will not be taken for a mug due to a persons lack of knowledge/incompetence or what ever else you wish to call it.

Dan-Dan

rsole , i cannot believe you can fully function as a successfull ?tradesman , by quoting in the manner you describe , i think any normal householder would run a mile from such a clause

System

Stevie_Palimo wrote: »

You are quite clearly failing to see the point I am making and or trying to be argumentative, A big difference between doing building work and work that lasts for 2-3 years.


It is rather very simple what I posted but only yourself choosing to pick faults so I'll try and be even clearer for you.


Builder please quote me for work.
Okay no problems £10.000 with no vat.
Me: good stuff please start in 2 weeks.
Builder: no problems starts work in 2 weeks and then half way through says btw I am increasing the costs due to the fact that I am that stupid and do not know what turnover I am on thus giving you an additional £2000.00 bill.
Me: Get away with ya you quoted me £10.000 not £12.000 but if my name was r_sole I'd just accept it as it is the way you believe business is carried out.


Yeh righto, Get a grip and when back in reality realise people will not be taken for a mug due to a persons lack of knowledge/incompetence or what ever else you wish to call it.

yes, I'm the one calling others lazy, incompetent, stupid and now lacking knowledge..

All I am saying is that it is possible the tradesman has been caught out by some accounting matters, you will find rather than every contractor being a top notch accountant, they usually employ someone to do this for them so aren't always onto of the day to day issues aside from cashflow.

The scenarios you are posting don't really relate at all to what I am saying so you can keep going with them if you like.

I was never criticised for being open and honest about the situation with VAT, I was questioned on it a few times, and my competitors were all VAT registered so quoting for jobs my clients were fully aware of the situation.

"Back in reality" some people do make mistakes from time to time in areas which are not their own specialities!