Is my immersion water heater running on Economy 7?

zach8

Hi all,

I am new here. Fairly recently we have purchased a flat that has no gas, everything is electric. I had no experiecne with this system at all. We used to live in the place with mixture of gas and electricity.

We still stay on our old address (packing our stuff, organizing removals etc.), but when we visited the flat yesterday and try to heat the water for two hours and we're noticed that the heater is not running? I mean, there was no sound like kettling the water when I switched on the heater by pressing the switch on the wall. The immersion heater is made by Albion. At first, I tought the heater is dead. Once we come back to home I did a research on the web and I think we might be on an Economy 7 tarrif.

The flat was build in the early 1990s and has a dual meater. I did a photos of the tank and the meter, but I can post it a link beacuse I am new user... There is also a radio switch aside the meter. There are two switches on the wall, one for the bottom immersion heater and one for the top one.

Now, here is the question. Meaning that I am on an Economy 7 tarrif, I can switch on the bottom immersion heater on (taht is for E7, not the boost) durring the day, but it wont heat the water until radio switch release the power arround midnight? Am I correct? I don't see myself (or my girlfriend) staying up everyday until midnight to press the swith on the wall.

Regards,
Maurice

molerat

That is the usual set up. If you switch it on during the day and it does not heat up but it is hot in the morning then the bottom one is linked directly to the E7 supply and can be left on. The top element is for a quick boost if you run out of hot water during the day.

[Deleted User]

The meters should show which rate is active.Digital meters by a flashing or blinking reading/curser.Analogue meter has an indicater in top right corner usually. Red light would flash fairly fast when water heaters are on. You could also work out when the meters switch to the low rate. In BST its more likely to be around 1.0 am for the cheap rate if the timerswitch is accurate

zach8

Thanks for quick reply guys. I think we still have the old meter, not the new one. I haven't seen any digital timer or anything new in the wall box. Here is the photo of the meter: h t t p://s29.postimg.org/nvo6sounb/WP_20150912_009.jpg (remove spaces from http address). I will try to run the water heater overnight and I'll check if the water is hot in the morning.

Richie-from-the-Boro

That side of the wall is theirs and their meter, you would not find your water controller in their property box. This side of the wall is yours and you will have .. .. or should have a water controller. Some say from the early 80's till now look like this, other older setups may have a couple of isolating switches which would usually be 20a neon double pole usually run from its own ring circuit. You should look for a water controller whose job it is is to throw / isolate one of the two circuits so both top and bottom element 3kW feeds can not be simultaneously live. I would expect to find that switch in the airing cupboard or 'through the wall', so airing cupboard to hallway or kitchen for example. Best of luck.

zach8

Hi Richie,

Many thanks for your reply. Yes, the meter and the radio controler are their property. I don't see any controler in the airing cupboard though, but there are two switches (one with fuse?) on my side. The switches have a lead to the immersion heater, one goes to the bottom and the second one is connected on the middle. Pictures are here:

h t t p://postimg.org/image/rllh3di5v/
h t t p://postimg.org/image/eg5yx9oab/

I pressume that both heaters (the bottom and the middle one) cannot run simuteinusly? Otherwise, the energy bill will be massive. I am thinkig of leaving only bottom heater on during the day (it will not heat the water until the radio controler release the power arround midnight, I guess) and switch off the top booster.

Richie-from-the-Boro

- from the two (1) images (2) you supply

Its difficult to know what 'wire gauge in the wall' or pole they have, I'm sure you already know the one to the top element 'looks like' a double pole fused top up only and the bottom looks like an ordinary single throw non-fused. Importantly both should be on own separate circuit with no spurs, no nothing, never. In truth the white switch looks like someone has bodged a spur from somewhere even though this lower heating element is the one that's on all night and working hard.

"""Assuming both heaters cannot run simultaneously?""" would be logical but that's a cack handed install I've seen many times because it relies on a numptie householder ensuring the top is off before the bottom is switched on - so I would not assume and check later. However for now your real need is to test :

- want water during the day write a rule [big font] and tape it to the wall
- 1st top off / isolated before bottom on for night rate water all night
- 2nd bottom off / isolated before top on for day rate water remembering to switch off before you leave the property

A new or S/H one of these is easy to fit and crude enough to be foolproof, they produce excellent install diagrams and literature and have a 30+ year lifespan.

Best of luck, and the usual caveat that it should be a sparky that does this controller fitting.

footyguy

zach8 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am new here. Fairly recently we have purchased a flat that has no gas, everything is electric. I had no experiecne with this system at all. We used to live in the place with mixture of gas and electricity.

We still stay on our old address (packing our stuff, organizing removals etc.), but when we visited the flat yesterday and try to heat the water for two hours and we're noticed that the heater is not running? I mean, there was no sound like kettling the water when I switched on the heater by pressing the switch on the wall. The immersion heater is made by Albion. At first, I tought the heater is dead. Once we come back to home I did a research on the web and I think we might be on an Economy 7 tarrif.

The flat was build in the early 1990s and has a dual meater. I did a photos of the tank and the meter, but I can post it a link beacuse I am new user... There is also a radio switch aside the meter. There are two switches on the wall, one for the bottom immersion heater and one for the top one.

Now, here is the question. Meaning that I am on an Economy 7 tarrif, I can switch on the bottom immersion heater on (taht is for E7, not the boost) durring the day, but it wont heat the water until radio switch release the power arround midnight? Am I correct? I don't see myself (or my girlfriend) staying up everyday until midnight to press the swith on the wall.

Regards,
Maurice

Can you not contact the seller to ask them to explain how it works?

Because the answer based on the info you have given is ... it depends.

1. You can't usually hear an immersion in operation (unless it is set so high and is boiling the water). You should be able to identify if the heater comes on by a large increase in the speed of the meter.
2. The upper (boost) heater should work any time of the day.
3. The lower heater may be wired to only come on during low rate electricity, and even if not, you should aim to make maximum use of low rate electricity when heating the water this way. If necessary, think of getting a timer installed.
If the lower meter is timed/wired to only come on at the low rate period, you can just leave the switch on.
4. If the lower heater does not work at least during the low rate period, or the upper meter does not work at any time, then it sounds like that individual meter is bust. Replacement is possible.


Edit: Just looked at the pictures of your tank. It's quite a small tank (with a built in header tank). My guess is that both circuits are probably live 24/7
It looks like the upper heater has probably been replaced quite recently by the cover - and I guess that the switch was probably replaced with the fused one at the same time. If it doesn't work, check the fuse first.
My guess is that the lower heater is as installed ... and so after 20+ years is probably bust.

Smiley_Dan

IME you can sometimes hear an immersion heater beginning to boil the water closest to it, even if the overall tank temperature is lower...