HPC thread of the week

ukcarper

anchovypizza wrote: »

Just what are YOU trying to achieve?

Reading Crashy's posts along with the other similar posters you seem to hold with a constant and utter disdain I sense a feeling of self preservation.
From my experience I can see many young working people being forced into living conditions that are far from ideal. I cannot help thinking that Crashy is making the best of a bad deal and lashing out at people turning on him.

The one great thing I find about home ownership above everything else is the sense of security it gives you, which is the one of the biggest bonus's I do not sense in any of your thousands of posts. If you truly are happy in the path you have taken, then please give some indication of that when it comes to those less fortunate.

What do you think of this article for example? .......

BBC Link about HMO

Do you think it OK to mock and bully people living in conditions like this, circumstance can make lives for some people very difficult, so difficult they just cannot get on the home owning ride you deride them for.

When we started out we was given a small deposit by my partners family on our first home which was a precursor to everything good that happened next, good family, good health and and a good poker hand in life has put me in a position where we are today. My last thought in the world as someone so lucky and secure in a warm comfortable home would be to stick the knife in someone less fortunate, and more so when I have never walked in their shoes.

Crashy does talk nonsense sometimes as do some of the other critics of the housing market and housing policies in the UK, but they also have a point sometimes that is blurred when anger gets the better of them, something I can quite easily take into account and read between the lines of Crashy who one of many people who are having great difficulties with housing today.


p.s what I asked you to look at but MSE do not allow links was the terrible conditions in many HM0 properties, and they really are appalling

I have every sympathy for young people who find themselves victims of high housing costs and personally would have preferred it if prices hadn't increased the amount they have, Although I think the problem is mainly confined to London and the South East .

Unfortunately Crashy doesn't fit into that catagory and all he seems to do is criticise people who have bought, while maintaining rents have hardly increased over the last 20 and if that was true their wouldn't be a problem with housing.

Crashy_Time

mwpt wrote: »

CrashyTime, you really need to open up to alternate views. I think you've become so single minded you don't even recognise when someone is actually trying (at least partly) to defend you.

Also, have you considered why HPC bans any slightly dissenting voices? Have you considered that your views are being shaped by the moderators there?[/QUOTE]



:rotfl: I have seen ex-bankers on TV saying that they were told to shovel the loans out to anything with a pulse, and worry about the consequences later...or never. The guy who dreamed up the idea of securitizing mortgages has been interviewed saying it was like putting petrol on a fire when the big banks got behind the idea. The notion that the "HPC Moderators" are big players in shaping the world view of anyone who sees the mess the bankers (and mugs who lined up for the loans) have made is mildly eccentric to put it politely, and sums up the bunker mentality around here sometimes (although the views on here are probably more in line with Joe Public`s than the stuff discussed at HPC)


You either accept that it is pretty obvious a massive housing bubble was stoked to make the little guy feel better off than he actually was, and to line the pockets of powerful bankers, and they are now stuck as to how to unwind it painlessly, or you believe it is all a conspiracy theory started by a bunch of people on the HPC website (being controlled by a sinister group of puppet-masters called "The Moderators")? My take is that HPC just provides an outlet for people who want to discuss the reality of the mess we are in, and that people got banned for trotting out absolute nonsense day after day (Hamish?) or picking nasty little fights with other posters............over to you.

Crashy_Time

ukcarper wrote: »

I have every sympathy for young people who find themselves victims of high housing costs and personally would have preferred it if prices hadn't increased the amount they have, Although I think the problem is mainly confined to London and the South East .

Unfortunately Crashy doesn't fit into that catagory and all he seems to do is criticise people who have bought, while maintaining rents have hardly increased over the last 20 and if that was true their wouldn't be a problem with housing.

The problem with housing is that housing is too expensive, rents are a side-show, most young people just live at home and pay no rent, many others find ways to pay as little rent as possible (or get the taxpayer to pay a big slice) The problem will soon be shifted to those who hope to cash in their "equity" so we just have to wait and see how that plays out won`t we......:money:

ukcarper

Crashy_Time wrote: »

The problem with housing is that housing is too expensive, rents are a side-show, most young people just live at home and pay no rent, many others find ways to pay as little rent as possible (or get the taxpayer to pay a big slice) The problem will soon be shifted to those who hope to cash in their "equity" so we just have to wait and see how that plays out won`t we......:money:

This goes to show how much iof the HPC doctrine you have taken in, very few people hope to cash in their equity.

mwpt

Crashy_Time wrote: »

You either accept that it is pretty obvious a massive housing bubble was stoked to make the little guy feel better off than he actually was, and to line the pockets of powerful bankers, and they are now stuck as to how to unwind it painlessly, or you believe it is all a conspiracy theory started by a bunch of people on the HPC website (being controlled by a sinister group of puppet-masters called "The Moderators")? My take is that HPC just provides an outlet for people who want to discuss the reality of the mess we are in, and that people got banned for trotting out absolute nonsense day after day (Hamish?) or picking nasty little fights with other posters............over to you.

We have common ground. Politicians knew, at least to some extent, the outcomes of the various demand side stimulant policies. I believed we'd see a correction but underestimated the lengths government would go to. And I genuinely enjoy some of the opinions and debate that goes on over there. Some of the guys are obviously well educated and informed (FreeTrader etc).

But you're missing my point about HPC. I tried to argue from logic, rather than faith, why London would almost certainly not crash 60% like some posters insist. Rents and btl set a floor on prices.You can read my arguments as MarkWeston on the prime London thread and if you care to debate we can talk here. But that nutty guy, TheCountOfNowhere accused me of being a troll, just like he does to anyone who questions a severe crash. And shortly after, I was banned. So, was that picking a nasty fight?

And so my claim is that though we share common ground, you are not willing to adjust your thinking and a lot of that will be because your views are shaped by the extreme opinions, the only allowed, on HPC.

uncreative

I have lost out on the last 4 BTL properties in closed bids, anecdotally to first time buyers. The average price has gone up 15-20% for 1 and 2 bed flats. Homes with 4 and 5 beds are coming DOWN by circa £50k. There cant surely be a convergence in the middle.

I am convinced the Reptilian Elite are the ones behind the increase in property prices to that of outside the acceptable yield range for BTL. Or at least thats what HPC is telling me is the reason.

Crashy_Time

ukcarper wrote: »

This goes to show how much iof the HPC doctrine you have taken in, very few people hope to cash in their equity.

Wild generalisation, like the one you made about BTL`ers selling if the value increased by three times the price they paid and the rent didn`t move up substantially over a few years. Maybe half of the posters on here (about six people) think like that, but not for the country as a whole. CrashNorris has been in the game for a few years too long if that is the norm for sure :rotfl:


Most people I have discussed BTL with thought/hoped they were buying a long term income stream "as their pension", and that the property value would just automatically increase because of "supply and demand", or "not enough land", or some other notion they hadn`t really thought about too hard. Price increases from the early 2000`s to the bust in `08 were driven mainly by too much loose credit, and for many regions outside London the increases stopped when the SHTF first time around. Many BTL`ers are glad to get 400-500p.m in their pocket because they can`t sell even if they wanted to, and many are probably waiting for the price to "come back" (like mugs did during the dot.com bust)


There is a stat that used to get trotted out on HPC a lot, about MEW as a % of GDP or something similar. There is no way the MEW game could have taken off like it did if "very few people hope to cash in their equity". The reality is that the equity, or "Free Money" from property was the biggest windfall most ordinary people were ever likely to see, and they went for it like a hungry Great White on a chum line. There are also tons of people who are hoping, even expecting, that some young punter who works down Tesco`s is going to get a loan for three quarters of a million or there about so that they can retire in the style they deserve ....:rotfl: Good luck with that one, most of them will be disappointed. Rant over

Crashy_Time

mwpt wrote: »

We have common ground. Politicians knew, at least to some extent, the outcomes of the various demand side stimulant policies. I believed we'd see a correction but underestimated the lengths government would go to. And I genuinely enjoy some of the opinions and debate that goes on over there. Some of the guys are obviously well educated and informed (FreeTrader etc).

But you're missing my point about HPC. I tried to argue from logic, rather than faith, why London would almost certainly not crash 60% like some posters insist. Rents and btl set a floor on prices.You can read my arguments as MarkWeston on the prime London thread and if you care to debate we can talk here. But that nutty guy, TheCountOfNowhere accused me of being a troll, just like he does to anyone who questions a severe crash. And shortly after, I was banned. So, was that picking a nasty fight?

And so my claim is that though we share common ground, you are not willing to adjust your thinking and a lot of that will be because your views are shaped by the extreme opinions, the only allowed, on HPC.

All I will say about London is that never in the city`s history have so many people been so highly leveraged on property, and never has overseas money been such a strong part of the price foundation, so for those reasons I wouldn`t bet on London property now, certainly not by going the I.O route. But yes, the PTB have intervened in a massive way that most did not expect, however they can`t/won`t do so indefinitely and sales volumes tell the real story anyway IMO, it is a crash just waiting in the wings for someone to shout "Action!"

mwpt

You ignored all my real points. Oh well.

ukcarper

Crashy_Time wrote: »

Wild generalisation, like the one you made about BTL`ers selling if the value increased by three times the price they paid and the rent didn`t move up substantially over a few years. Maybe half of the posters on here (about six people) think like that, but not for the country as a whole. CrashNorris has been in the game for a few years too long if that is the norm for sure :rotfl:


Most people I have discussed BTL with thought/hoped they were buying a long term income stream "as their pension", and that the property value would just automatically increase because of "supply and demand", or "not enough land", or some other notion they hadn`t really thought about too hard. Price increases from the early 2000`s to the bust in `08 were driven mainly by too much loose credit, and for many regions outside London the increases stopped when the SHTF first time around. Many BTL`ers are glad to get 400-500p.m in their pocket because they can`t sell even if they wanted to, and many are probably waiting for the price to "come back" (like mugs did during the dot.com bust)


There is a stat that used to get trotted out on HPC a lot, about MEW as a % of GDP or something similar. There is no way the MEW game could have taken off like it did if "very few people hope to cash in their equity". The reality is that the equity, or "Free Money" from property was the biggest windfall most ordinary people were ever likely to see, and they went for it like a hungry Great White on a chum line. There are also tons of people who are hoping, even expecting, that some young punter who works down Tesco`s is going to get a loan for three quarters of a million or there about so that they can retire in the style they deserve ....:rotfl: Good luck with that one, most of them will be disappointed. Rant over

Your just churning out more Of the HPC mantra.