County Court Claim from Parking Eye before results of POPLA decision?

geniebean8

Hi guys

I've been fighting a Parking Eye appeal since January this year, encouraged by all the threads on this forum. I'm now not entirely sure what I need to do next, so would really appreciate the help of all you good people.

So the story - in December last year, I parked in a private carpark run by Parking Eye. I am pretty sure I paid just enough money to cover the time of my stay there but it may have been close. Anyway, I received a PCN in january, where it wasn't really clear what they were claiming I had done (they just said I stayed in the carpark for 2hrs 48mins and implied that I didn't pay for my stay), so I wrote back asking them to explain what the claim was about as I had paid the parking fee. I also stated I obviously don't have the parking ticket as it had been thrown away since I had no reason at the time to keep it. They then wrote back saying I hadn't paid enough. So I wrote them a letter asking them to confirm what the parking tariff was and explain to me exactly how much I had underpaid as I can't remember the tarriff. I said from memory I thought it was something like £2.20 per 2 hours, and I paid something like £3, hence by my calculations what I paid would have covered 2hrs 43min hence at most I might have overstayed by 5 mins, but surely there is some allowance in between entering and exiting the car park for actually finding a spot, going to the machine, paying and then when exiting, getting in the car, putting seatbelts on etc. I therefore said the amount they're asking for was excessive, asked them for a breakdown of costs and I requested a POPLA code if they were not going to cancel the charge.

I then got the standard reply saying my appeal was rejected, and they didn't even answer my questions about exactly what I paid or what the tarriff was and provided no breakdown of their costs, they just quoted a whole spiel of previous court cases they had won. I did get my POPLA code but subsequently was a few days late in submitting the appeal, mainly because my husband fell ill and I was busy dealing with that for about 2 months. POPLA initially would not register the appeal because of the late submission but I was advised to appeal to them to consider it in light of exceptional circumstances (I sent them all the medical documents regarding my husband's illness) and I finally got an email acknowledgement with pdf letter saying they had registered my appeal and that I would get an outcome in July.

In the meantime, I received a pack of documents from Parking Eye showing what evidence they had provided to POPLA. I've only just realised now after re-reading bits of the forum that I should have written in to POPLA if I had any disputes re the evidence provided. For one thing, they only have a printout claiming that the amount of time paid for is 2 hours, but it still doesn't show the amount I actually paid into the machine. (They also showed pictures of the parking tarriff, which states it's £1.50 per 2 hours, so now I think I probably paid £2, covering me for about 2hours 40... But that's by the by). Anyway, I didn't do anything with this pack.

Fast forward a couple of months. A couple of weeks ago, I then received a letter before county court claim from parking eye. In it, one of the things they claimed was that I hadn't taken the opportunity to appeal through POPLA, so now they were going to take me to court. I was obviously very surprised by this since as far as I was concerned I was still awaiting the results of POPLA's decision. So I emailed POPLA asking if they had a decision and they confirmed that they hadn't looked at my case yet, and while they give a decision date, it is only an estimate and rest assured I will get a decision soon.

So I wrote back to Parking Eye enclosing the original letter from POPLA confirming the appeal had been registered, the email from POPLA confirming that the claim was still being considered and a copy of their cover letter from the evidence the sent to POPLA (proving that at some point PE had clearly acknowledged my POPLA appeal), and I asked them to please refrain from contacting me further until the POPLA decision has been received.

Today, I received the county court claim form (where again one of the things claimed is that I hadn't lodged an appeal with POPLA).

So - what do I do now? Do I just file a defence saying I am still awaiting the decision from POPLA as well as all the reasons why I was appealing the claim in the first place? Is my case with POPLA weakened by not having provided any comment on the evidence pack / is there any point me writing to provide commentary now? How does this whole thing work if I have both a POPLA appeal and county court claim running at the same time?.

Your help much appreciated...

Umkomaas

1. You must acknowledge service of the court documents, which gives you an extra 14 days to prepare your defence. Do it now, do not sleepwalk into overlooking this as you will be guaranteed a county court judgment (CCJ) against you by default, and a potential credit rating annotation, which will have serious consequences for the following six years.

2. Urgently email POPLA to ask them to hold the adjudication as you are in the process of sending in your rebuttal of the PE evidence pack.

3. Urgent written complaint to the DVLA and BPA that PE are pursuing you in the county courts despite your POPLA appeal having not yet been adjudicated. Send both a copy of the POPLA confirmation that your appeal is yet to be heard, and a copy of the county court papers. Email addresses in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #6.

4. Get on with your rebuttal. Standard advice I give on rebuttals is below.

HOW TO REBUT A PPC's EVIDENCE PACK

Here's an excellent example of how one poster dealt effectively and comprehensively with a PPC's Evidence Pack. I'm sure this will give you plenty of ideas on how to handle your case.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=67385911&posted=1#post67385911

And another one to consider.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67402366&postcount=26

Quentin

geniebean8 wrote: »

How does this whole thing work if I have both a POPLA appeal and county court claim running at the same time?.
...

You do need to defend the court claim just as if it were alone (and no POPLA appeal was ongoing)


Though include them not awaiting POPLA in your defence as well as everything else.


Then if it turns out the court case progresses to a hearing before your appeal is heard ask for an adjournment to allow the POPLA appeal to be completed first.

geniebean8

Thank you Quentin and Umkomaas for your replies - I will get on with acknowledging the county court claim and all the advice given.

Do you think that I do have a reasonably strong case against PE, to build my defence against them?

My main points regarding the main claim itself:
- charge excessively punitive and completely disproportionate
- not genuine pre-estimate of loss
- no allowance of a grace period

Additionally in the court papers one of the particulars of claims they state are: "ParkingEye's ANPR system, monitoring ___, captured vehicle _____ entering and leaving the car park, parking without a valid paid parking ticket."

Which is a different claim to their initial one that I hadn't paid enough rather than at all, and contradicts the evidence they supplied to POPLA (that I had only paid for 2 hours) - so I was thinking I can include this point in my defence as well

I was also thinking I can include points about the ANPR (PE proving that it is compliant with BPA requirements.

Is there anything else you think I have missed that I could include in the defence?

Also - I was reading on other threads about asking PE to submit documents to me that they are planning to use in court, in response to a Letter Before Action - is this still a valid thing to ask for? Is it still worth asking for proof of their contract with the landowner, proof of maintenance of the ANPR system etc?

Thanks again

Ralph-y

while you await further advice have a read through ....

http://www.parking-prankster.com/court-claim.html

good luck

Ralph:cool:

Umkomaas

@OP you're on the right lines with all the issues you've listed in your previous post and all can be built into a defence. It's at this point I have to say I'm not expert in any of the court stuff and any advice I give will be from my reading of other court threads, and will be peripheral to the main thrust of your case.

What I would say is that the small claims court is a lottery. PE have been beaten there many times; PE have won there many times. A weak defence gives the motorist a much poorer likely outcome, don't expect the Judge to be on your side.

Some (peripheral) things to think about/research.

1. Purchase the Parking Prankster's guide to defending a court case against ParkingEye from Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parking-Prankster-Guide-Defending-ParkingEye-ebook/dp/B00HSITXYG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441469472&sr=8-1&keywords=parking+prankster+guide

2. Read post #5 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky which covers court claims and defences.

3. Go over to PePiPoo where there are a number of PE court cases being advised on as well as cases that have been completed. You might want to post your own thread up there too - a number of experienced posters there with court knowledge.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

HTH

Northlakes

What location is this? Many if not most sites don't have planning permission or advertisement consent and it can be argued that a contract cannot be enforced at these sites. Is it relevant land?
Agree with Umkomaas Pepioo is a useful forum for court cases.

geniebean8

Umkomaas - thanks for your reply, as per your suggestion I have also posted on Pepipoo forums and have bought the Parking Prankster's guide.

Northlakes - it was in Carlisle (English Gate Plaza South) carpark. They did have signs up saying that it was a private carpark, run by ParkingEye... I have been trying to find details of the landowner to see if I could write to them directly but so far haven't been able to find anything!

Any other suggestions/thoughts most welcome.

Northlakes

I think PE have jumped the gun on this but you do need to get confirmation that POPLA are yet to adjudicate on this. But as others have said you do need to acknowledge the claim.

If I'm right I think this site is where you type in your VRN. Am I correct in this? You may have miss-typed the VRN? Did you ask PE to check their records for miss-matches?

geniebean8

Hi Northlakes

I had to pay at a ticket machine, where I think I had to type in my VRN. In the evidence pack PE provided to POPLA (but not in any direct correspondence to me), they provided a printout showing my VRN and a duration of 2 hours - but it still doesn't show how much I actually paid. My point to them was that if their tariff was £1.50 per 2 hours, I believe I paid £2, and really there is nothing on any of the signs that say I can't pay for fractions of the 2 hour blocks, so I don't believe I overstayed.

I have emails from POPLA confirming they have yet to adjudicate on this case (dated 21st and 24th Aug), which I sent to PE when I received their Letter Before County Court Claim. The County Court Claim is dated 1 September.

I submitted acknowledgement of the court claim today, so hopefully that's all ok.

Northlakes

I think you need to forget what to you was an overpayment. PE works in blocks of paid time and you didn't buy enough blocks.

However PE may have shot themselves in the foot by issuing a court claim prematurely.
You can add to your POPLA appeal that PE have issued court proceedings against you contrary to the BPA code of practice 36 c. A final reminder has not been issued or 14 days elapsed before instigating court proceedings after the final appeal procedures have been gone through.

This is a misleading action under The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008,

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—

(a)it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a competitor; or
.
(b)it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—
.
(i)the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of conduct,