Is frugal the new normal?

Goldiegirl

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

I've just read through all the posts and it makes interesting reading. I've never experienced the cliquiness (is that a word?) that has been levelled at some of the OS threads, I've always tried to welcome new folk in but they rarely stay long enough to let us get to know them properly, it's a shame!

We live in a relatively prosperous village in Hampshire, we are frugal, I don't really care what my fellow villagers think of that but no one has ever looked down on us for living life the way we choose to. We have very little that hasn't been pre-loved, my joy in life is to find a treasure in a charity shop or at a boot fair and I really like a good bargain too. My neighbours go off on cruises, fly off to the Bahamas (next door went last Thursday)buy lots of fashion clothes and accessories and good luck to them I say, wouldn't do for us. I had a visit from a near neighbour last Sunday and gave her a tour of the garden with our polytunnel and greenhouse, past the higgledy woodpile and as she left
she said to me you really ARE Tom and Barbara Good!!! but she was happy to take some spare veg! I think we don't value the same things as other folks do and posessions and status are meaningless nothings to us, I don't buy clothes etc. unless something wears out, I've just by the way bought a new pair of H*tter shoes but only because my old pair have cracked soles and these were much reduced in a sale and we had also a 20% off voucher for the garden centre they came from. That should see me OK for the next few years. I do also shop at W*rose, it's the only supermarket I can walk to, the rest are a bus ride away. I very rarely buy anything unless it's reduced though and find I don't spend any more there than I do anywhere else. We are frugal because that's who we are, I don't expect anyone to need an explanation for why, they wouldn't understand the answer if they had to ask anyway!

Maybe the new folk don't stay long as they find the frugal / thrifty message too extreme for them?


Perhaps they only want to try a few things out, like a bit of batch cooking, but because they aren't interested in doing everything, they feel out of place if they aren't shaving every cost to the bone.


Just a thought.


Also, as you mentioned cruises, and they wouldn't do for you, I just wondered if you'd given it a try.


I think there's a huge misconception about cruises.


The people that go on cruises are just nice, normal people. They've worked hard all their lives and now want the chance to see a bit more of the world in a pleasant, comfortable environment.


It's not some sort of glamorous fashion parade. There's a couple of 'formal' evenings a week where you can wear an evening dress or cocktail dress but the other evenings you can wear a perfectly normal dress or trousers and top. In the day it's jeans, shorts or whatever. Many people, me included, buy their dresses second hand from eBay. I never even wore an evening dress before going on a cruise.


We are quiet and introverted, so we have a table for two for meals - it's not about fixed dining on big tables anymore - you can please yourself.


There's all sorts of cruise lines available to suit many different budgets, not to mention different types of cabins, so it doesn't even have to be wildly expensive.


If you haven't tried it, maybe it'd be worth giving it a go..... you might surprise yourself and enjoy it!

Goldiegirl

uncreative wrote: »

We have just made an offer on a home, we are currently renting. We have a very good household income but our spending was so way out of control that we ended up with more debt than i care to mention. All paid off now and we are actually continuing the frugal ways, budgeting properly, looking for bargains, downgrading shopping brands once a month, you know all the tricks that let you save money.

Apparently our budget for a home based on a DIP was £500,000, we have friends that have all got houses of a similar "standard", size, cost etc.

I have interestingly been admired by most people over the last 6 months for not drinking on nights out, not spending £100-£150 in ONE NIGHT!!, driving, being the taxi for others. We said that the belts were getting tightened while we saved for a home. This was as has been said in this thread already, looked on positively.

I have since found out why in the last couple of days.......

We found a great little house, in our ideal location, and it is small, a 3 bed, and we are only looking for a mortgage of £140,000. We excitedly told all our friends and the majority reaction was interesting........Its as if we have been declared bankrupt.

What is this need to push the house purchase to the maximum. We have applied to take the mortgage over 10 years and keen to overpay like mad to be mortgage free in 6 years 6 months. Why is this not seen as a positive? Why do we have to buy a grander house but take on a mortgage of over £400,000 and get stressed to the max trying to keep the repayments up...???

We have gone from the life and soul of the party, to admired and very responsible, to social outcasts in a year, whereas I think we are in the best place we have ever been in.....

Sorry, rant over

This was also an interesting post, for several reasons


Firstly, if I were in your position, I'd apply for the mortgage over the longest term possible.


But, I'd ensure that there were no limits or penalties on overpayments.


Then I could make as many overpayments as I liked - but if anything unforeseen happened, I'd have the option to drop to the contracted monthly payment if I needed.... which would be a lot less for a 30 year mortgage than a 10 year mortgage. It would just add a bit more flexibility. Then, when things improved, the overpayments could be ramped up again if wished.


You've been congratulated on your attitude to paying off the mortgage quickly.


BUT


Earlier in this thread, people were saying that one should always buy the best the you can afford, and to 'buy cheap is to buy twice'


I wondered if this also applies to houses.


Will your house that you intend to buy always suit your needs? Or will you want to consider moving in a few years.


You don't have to have a £500K mortgage, but you could save thousands by considering buying a more expensive house now.


You could have the forever home now at today's prices - instead of buying it when later when it'll cost more


Interest rates are historically low now.... who knows what the rates might be if you need a bigger mortgage at a later date.


You save on moving expenses.


These are just a few alternative thoughts that maybe you hadn't considered.

fuddle

I've been observing today. We have been visiting a small town a little way from us. That small town has a lovely canal, it's where we have spent the best part of the day just watching with our picnic.

Anyway. The contrast between those who use the canal for relaxation, stress, and live a large proportion on their lovely canal boats and those who are holiday. There's nothing fast about canals and seeing the latter pump the round the mechanism for the sluice gate or banging the gates before the water levels allow the gate to open freely, as if to hurry the task, was really quite telling. Not all mind, I have spoken to some lovely holiday makers while helping open the gates.

But I just wanted to put my arm round a few of them and say 'chill, you're away from it all, enjoy it' and then 'will you bludy take your uncouth loudness away from me and please take care of the canal network!!'

[Deleted User]

Hi GOLDIEGIRL, thanks for your thoughts on my post and in answer to your question, no we haven't been on a cruise but do know many people who do cruise regularly, some of them very nice folks and some of them not at all the people I would chose to spend time with. We live not too far from the biggest cruise port in the south and I know how important the cruise industry is to the economy here and how popular cruising is with many people. I wouldn't like being confined to just the ship, no matter how big she was nor how well equipped or luxurious she was or her destination. I don't like to not be able to walk outside into the green that is the garden, I would be lost and uncomfortable in amongst so many folks I didn't know and would most likely spend the whole trip in my cabin!

Teddi

I am not a frugal person at all but that doesn't mean I spend willy nilly, there are certain things I will spend time on to get what I want for a lot less money, making my own dog beds, collars and coats, scouring ebay for outfits, growing my own organic veg, etc this I think is a general level of money saving that has now become normal but if you compare it to pre recession it was madness! Who would bother making a dog bed?!


Having a general level of saving is now normal but being truly frugal, like making one aubergine feed a dinner party of 8 and have leftovers for lunch is still very rare. I am in awe of the ladies and gents on here who do and more so that thy have the time available to do it.


Although I must agree on the judgemental part slightly, I have seen posts saying £x is an 'obscene' amount for a couple to spend on food, things about designer items, branded foods and even organic saying it is a waste, etc.

Lynplatinum

Like i said - its all relative!

What suits one does not suit another! Where we decide to spend or not spend our pennies or pounds!

I do hope tho that we never go back to just designing packaging in schools under 'Food Technology'. I hope that the curriculum still continues to teach a modicum of 'survival' cookery and could add budget management (did Bill Gates budget manage - no but he got someone to do it for him LOL)

Folks say parents should teach such stuff - the only issue is we have 'lost generations' of people who are now parents who were not bought up with this stuff but taught (by society) to be consumers. Now we reap the whirlwind of people getting into debt and getting it all on credit! So schools will have to pick up the pieces - again!

Different strokes for different folks! but some consistency in schooling! Then as adults with all the information - people can decide their own priorities :-)

GreyQueen

I suppose you need to look at it from the point of view that a board bearing the title Old Style on a website dedicated to Money Saving is going to be attracting a certain kind of readership, whether those readers chose to post or prefer to read along in silence.

This isn't a website aimed at those who want to know the right kind of wax to buy for the chauffeur to wax the Bentley, or a list of the top ten boutique hotels. We're MSE not Conde Nast Traveller magazine.;)

I've worked in the not for profit sector in the field of debt and welfare advice and have seen and heard many things, straight from the horse's mouth, which have left me astonished unto speechlessness. Any working day in my present job will likely turn up some shockers, too.

I am completely disinterested in many of the things which the consumer society can offer. It's not that I think other people are mad for wanting them, it's just that they have no appeal to me. I don't feel that my not liking them means that I am depriving myself - I wouldn't want a cruise as an all expenses paid gift. I have travelled to some very exotic places as a backpacker and done some very fun things, like skydiving and hot air ballooning, ocean kayaking, trailriding on horseback, climbing up volcanoes etc.

Proportionate to most of the world, I am obscenely rich. I have potable water piped to my home for a trifling sum, have electricity at my fingertips, have education, healthcare, and no one is trying to kill me.

Proportionate to the average income in the UK, I am in the lowest 10% of earners. I'm also bright; and when I do spend my money, I want to see a good return for it. I want my appliances to be energy-efficient, long-lasting and reliable, which I why I research them carefully before I buy, and spend a bit more up front to secure those qualities. I expect my durable goods to be very durable.

I also like to reserve the money for the quality stuff, and the quality experiences, by not being wasteful. I'd consider myself a fool if I overlooked the many excellent garments in the Everything 50p Chazzer (which has included Per Una, East, Nike, EWM, Jacques Vert, Marks& Sparks and many other reasonable quality items) in favour of buying a new garment which is instantly rendered worthless. Like the new car which depreciates by thousands the second you drive it off the forecourt.

The ego boost of buying new isn't worth the annoyance of losing money hand-over-fist. I don't feel that I've treated myself well, I feel that I've been an idiot!

VJsmum

GreyQueen wrote: »

I suppose you need to look at it from the point of view that a board bearing the title Old Style on a website dedicated to Money Saving is going to be attracting a certain kind of readership, whether those readers chose to post or prefer to read along in silence.

This isn't a website aimed at those who want to know the right kind of wax to buy for the chauffeur to wax the Bentley, or a list of the top ten boutique hotels. We're MSE not Conde Nast Traveller magazine.;)

I've worked in the not for profit sector in the field of debt and welfare advice and have seen and heard many things, straight from the horse's mouth, which have left me astonished unto speechlessness. Any working day in my present job will likely turn up some shockers, too.

I am completely disinterested in many of the things which the consumer society can offer. It's not that I think other people are mad for wanting them, it's just that they have no appeal to me. I don't feel that my not liking them means that I am depriving myself - I wouldn't want a cruise as an all expenses paid gift. I have travelled to some very exotic places as a backpacker and done some very fun things, like skydiving and hot air ballooning, ocean kayaking, trailriding on horseback, climbing up volcanoes etc.

Proportionate to most of the world, I am obscenely rich. I have potable water piped to my home for a trifling sum, have electricity at my fingertips, have education, healthcare, and no one is trying to kill me.

Proportionate to the average income in the UK, I am in the lowest 10% of earners. I'm also bright; and when I do spend my money, I want to see a good return for it. I want my appliances to be energy-efficient, long-lasting and reliable, which I why I research them carefully before I buy, and spend a bit more up front to secure those qualities. I expect my durable goods to be very durable.

I also like to reserve the money for the quality stuff, and the quality experiences, by not being wasteful. I'd consider myself a fool if I overlooked the many excellent garments in the Everything 50p Chazzer (which has included Per Una, East, Nike, EWM, Jacques Vert, Marks& Sparks and many other reasonable quality items) in favour of buying a new garment which is instantly rendered worthless. Like the new car which depreciates by thousands the second you drive it off the forecourt.

The ego boost of buying new isn't worth the annoyance of losing money hand-over-fist. I don't feel that I've treated myself well, I feel that I've been an idiot!

This, really.

It's also that I Truly detest the power of advertising. My least favourite words are "must have" and "collect them all" - people aren't mad for wanting things because the advertisers make sure they want them. I am not immune of course, but dislike it when I realise I've been had.

I also hate that moment when something lovely and new gets damaged in some way - the resentment I feel is immeasurable. I'd rather not have the stress.....

Caterina

GQ amazingly well put, thank you!

VJsmum how about "the ...xyz... you can't live without"? LOL sometimes I wonder how I am still alive!

Goldiegirl I am sad that you seem to need to defend your choices, it is clear that you must have felt judged and I feel partly responsible by having started this post, so let me respond personally: I believe that each and everyone of us has the perfect right to use their resources just as they see fit. I would not be dragged by wild horses to a cruise holiday personally, but hey ho, who am I to judge your choice? It is all about personal choice.

I reiterate that my gripe is not with how people spend their money, but if someone comes to me claiming poverty (and - for example, as it has happened, underpays me for a job I do because I accept a lower rate on account of their reduced circumstances), then they fritter their money in fripperies, it bothers me because I feel I have been had. When I worked as a doula I had a few families like that, sadly after being exploited once too many times I stopped offering reduced rates. But I did volunteer work for really poor mothers, with an organisation, instead. And kept high rates for my private clients.

If I was not involved in the transaction, and it was the case of someone whinging they are skint, then go on a cruise holiday, or buy fancy new clothes all the time,, just as an example, I would find it weird, to say the least, but good luck to them. Just don't involve me. I have no interest. I hope it makes sense.

lessonlearned

I think the whole global capitalism/Advertising thing probably has a lot to answer for. I think it creates desire for material goods and the status that possessing and consuming confers. It creates dissatisfaction and unhappiness.

If you wear this you will be beautiful, if you buy this it will,make you happy..........you are soooo worth it. And so on.

I sometimes wonder how much of the current Immigration problems are if not caused, then certainly exacerbated, by all this. Yes I know there are a lot of political refugees and people fleeing from war ravaged countries, but I think its not unreasoanle to suggest that a lot of the people who are on the move are economic migrants.

Not that I have a problem with people trying to emigrate to find a better life, in our past our ancestors did the same , shipping out to the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zeland.

Global capitalism is something else though.

Even the poorest nations have access to Television and media and will be saturated with advertising, sponsorship by the big corporations Etc. You only have to look at the global reach of Coca Cola, Nike, Macdonalds etc I bet theres hardly a corner of the globe who don't recognise these brands.

I remember once seeing an interview with Russian teenagers who were ecstatic because Macdonalds had opened in Moscow. To them the golden arches represented western glamour and freedom, wealth and opportunity.

I e heard of people going to Russia with a suitcases of Levi jeans to sell on the black market. In a ratner more altruistic vein I had friends who travelled to The Gambia - they used to take pencils, crayons, notebooks and colouring books for the street children there.

These same friends raised a lot of money for these children and collected a load of football equipment for them. Football boots, nets etc, shipped them out but they never arrived. Corrupt local governments intercepted them and sold them for profit. The children didn't receive anything..

I often wonder how many people in poor countries see images of the west on TV and get suckered in.....I often wonder how they think, in their innocence and naivety, they probably think all they have to,do,is get to,the west.......it will be a land of milk and honey.

The damage is done and we can't turn back the clock. But, as can be seen from the posters on here, I think some people are waking up, getting off that supertanker and taking more responsibility for,their own personal spending habits.

As I mentioned in a previous post I found the images of Black Friday to be truly shocking. I am sickened by the rampant commercialism I see and appalled by just how materialistic society has become.

I too have a modest income now that I am both widowed and retired but my simple lifestyle ensures my comfort, security and wellbeing. If I won the lottery tomorrow - unlikely because I don't buy a ticket.......I doubt that my lifestyle would change much.