Section 21 notice

white-sage

We have a tenant who is constantly behind with her rent, she was paying small amouts to try and bring the rent up to date but it is now getting further and further behind. We have decided to give her notice under section 21.


Her AST expired on 31st December 2011 and then continued on a monthly contractual tenancy thererafter. Because she is on housing benefit the agreement stated that rent was to be paid four weekly. This was done because her benefit payments are paid four weekly.


The problem we have now is what date do we put in the section 21 notice? Do we work on the monthly term or will it be a four weekly term. I have read a lot of the information on this forum and think I am correct in saying that we need to serve a section 21(4)(a)notice. We want to make sure the notice is valid so we are trying to make sure we have done it correctly. Any help would be appreciated.

theartfullodger

If she is

constantly behind with her rent,

why have you not issued (several) S8s & taken her to court?? You can issue an s8 if only 1p is not paid for 1 day..

However, because the tenancy states rent payable 4-weekly s8g8 (the mandatory, 2 months unpaid ground) cannot be used...

Please let us know.

G_M

white-sage wrote: »

Do we work on the monthly term or will it be a four weekly term. I have read a lot of the information on this forum and think I am correct in saying that we need to serve a section 21(4)(a)notice. We want to make sure the notice is valid so we are trying to make sure we have done it correctly. Any help would be appreciated.

Neither.

Serve a S21 (1)(b) with 2 calender months from service date to expiry date.

Read:

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

At the same time serve a S8 notice for rent arrears.
Use ground 8 if the arrears = 2+ months rent.
If not, use ground 10 &/or ground 11

see
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/schedule/2

white-sage

G_M i have looked at the information you mentioned. The tenancy agreement was a standard RLA AST agreement. When the fixed term expired the agreement states that it will carry on as a monthly contractual tenancy. Does that not mean your advice at 6) applies?


Theartfullodger I have not served a section 8 notice. I had hoped she would bring the rent up to date but sadly she has not.

G_M

white-sage wrote: »

G_M i have looked at the information you mentioned. The tenancy agreement was a standard RLA AST agreement. When the fixed term expired the agreement states that it will carry on as a monthly contractual tenancy. Does that not mean your advice at 6) applies?

Apologies - Yes probobly.

Quote the exact wording in the contract.

Assuming CPT then yes you were right: serve a section 21(4)(a) notice.

Section 4a of the 1988 Act states:

(a)that the landlord or, in the case of joint landlords, at least one of them has given to the tenant a notice [F4in writing] stating that, after a date specified in the notice, being the last day of a period of the tenancy and not earlier than two months after the date the notice was given, possession of the dwelling-house is required by virtue of this section;

If each 'tenancy period' is 4 weeks, then notice should expire at the end of a 4 week period.

However it should also be at least 2 months from service date, so effectively 3 x 4 week periods (two 4 week periods would be less than 2 months).

You say the fixed term ended on 31st Dec 2011. This was a Saturday. The Periods therefore run from Sunday to Saturday 4 weekly. The notice should therefore expire on a Saturday.

However, to be safe (in case I, or you, got the dates wrong), you could include a 'saving clause':

http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/03/22/section-21-possession-notices-at-last-a-sensible-decision/

white-sage

Thank you G_M. I do think that a "saving clause" would be a good idea.


While doing much reading up this afternoon I did however see the opinion expressed on interpreting Spencer v Taylor that if a tenancy began with a fixed term it was implied that a landlord would always be able to use s21(1)(b). I did wonder if my case would be different as it is a contractual periodic tenancy but looking at s21(1)(a) it says "whether statutory or not". It was also stated in the article I read that s21(4)(a) was only now relevant in tenancies that had been periodic from the outset.


Interestingly enough the standard RLA AST agreement wording changed in 2013 to state that after the fixed term has expired the tenancy will become a statutory periodic tenancy whereas previously it had been a contractual periodic tenancy.


I am tempted to give notice under s21(1)(b) and if the matter reaches a hearing use Spencer v Taylor as a precedent.

G_M

I'm getting old. And tired. Time to give up....

My first instinct (post 3 above) was right and you made me doubt myself.

I expressed it well I think in post 4 of this thread here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4846092

So, once again: apologies!

Think I'd better review/clarify the wording in

* Ending/renewing an AST:

white-sage

Sorry G_M it was never my intention to make you doubt yourself. I think it illustrates how confusing the whole situation is. There is so much conflicting information on the internet.


I have been renting for over 20 years and have never had to go to court to evict a tenant.


I will go ahead and serve notice under section 21(1)(b) and also section 8 grounds 10 and 11 and see how things go. I will keep you updated with how things go.

G_M

No sweat! A challange is good for me as is some doubt.

Good luck.

white-sage

Quick update. Tenant has paid nothing off the arrears and has since bought a 12 reg car and been on holiday. I have put the section 8 and 21 notices in the post.

I messaged the tenant over the weekend as we have been trying to get access to do a landlords inspection and boiler service/ safety check. The first appointment two weeks ago was refused by the tenant as she was unavailable. She has messaged me back this morning saying she is not available for the new appointment on Thursday and has insisted on TWO WEEKS notice in writing before she will give us access.The tenancy agreement says we only need to give her 24 hours written notice. Is she able to insist on two weeks written notice?

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I would avoid "messaging" and keep everything in writing from now on as this sounds like it is not going to be easy. No she can't make up notice periods. The boiler check is a legal requirement for her benefit, so reiterate that firmly and offer two or three dates in the next couple of weeks.