Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Thrugelmir

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Just one example but Deutsche post was privatised in 1995 - how has royal mail done in government ownership 1995 onwards compared to DHL?

Are they comparable. Totally different cultures. Top to bottom.

Mistermeaner

Maybe. Yes different cultures but an example of a nationalised company completely failing to move with the times when privately owned competitors from overseas are able to both steal market share in uk and do better globally.

Public ownership kills competitiveness invocation flexibility etc etc etc

Thrugelmir

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Maybe. Yes different cultures but an example of a nationalised company completely failing to move with the times when privately owned competitors from overseas are able to both steal market share in uk and do better globally.

As long as the Unions maintain the power they do. Then change is a painful process for the public sector. I call them the failed management wannabe's. As not unintelligent people in the main. Simply out of touch with commercial reality.

zagubov

How much of the German economy was a British post-war construct? I don't mean the physical factories, but the institutional structures, the unions, the workers councils, etc.

I heard we helped organise that after the war, but didn't apply the same analysis and intervention to our own industries. And took a severe kicking when we dropped the tariff barriers between us and West Germany.

Generali

cells wrote: »

they is the left

they learnt the mistake of history, nationalize something and pump it full of 10 x as much staff as it needs wont happen this time around it cant happen

the companies should be independent and run as for profit ventures. of course only those that are natural monopolies or where a natural monopoly is clearly an advantage.

This just isn't true. Prices fell precipitously while profits rose after privatisation despite the companies having been loss making entities just a few years earlier.

You are arguing that black is white for reasons that I don't claim to understand but privatisation led to a huge increase in the efficiency of utilities firms and there is absolutely no evidence, despite your assertions, that nationalisation would lead to anything but £150bn being chucked down the drain followed by a huge decrease in quality of service matched by an increase in prices.

Tromking

Generali wrote: »

This just isn't true. Prices fell precipitously while profits rose after privatisation despite the companies having been loss making entities just a few years earlier.

You are arguing that black is white for reasons that I don't claim to understand but privatisation led to a huge increase in the efficiency of utilities firms and there is absolutely no evidence, despite your assertions, that nationalisation would lead to anything but £150bn being chucked down the drain followed by a huge decrease in quality of service matched by an increase in prices.

The same sort of pre-Thatcher dogmatic thinking and in-built inertia that took the UK to the brink in late 1970's is ironically beginning to take hold with those who think the only way to run a country is to outsource and privatise. In the initial stages there were of course huge gains in savings and efficiency, only an idiot would say otherwise. There is a new problem however, and I don't think it's just being temporarily exacerbated by austerity. Public services are just beginning to become a little bit rubbish and it will become less and less justifiable politically for the privateers to skim off profits whilst not giving us the first world quality of public services we demand. I personally see no real difference between a 1970's heavily unionised public sector workforce refusing to reform and a private company protecting its profits by providing a increasingly basket case service usually off the backs of a low paid workforce. There has to be another way and cells is pretty close with his/ her posts, IMO.

Mistermeaner

What services are so bad?

Moby

Mistermeaner wrote: »

What services are so bad?

The ones that dont exist anymore mainly.

Moby

Got tickets to see Jeremy's coronation at the South Bank on Sat. A bit gutted because I voted for Andy but still we live in interesting times!

cells

Generali wrote: »

This just isn't true. Prices fell precipitously while profits rose after privatisation despite the companies having been loss making entities just a few years earlier.

You are arguing that black is white for reasons that I don't claim to understand but privatisation led to a huge increase in the efficiency of utilities firms and there is absolutely no evidence, despite your assertions, that nationalisation would lead to anything but £150bn being chucked down the drain followed by a huge decrease in quality of service matched by an increase in prices.

We do not live in an economic experiment how can you be confident thats the thing you mention are down to purely ownership structure and that other factors like population change or technology improvements or disposable income didn't play some if not most of the part in improving performance and profits?