Agricultural tie and income

Rose_Beth

Freecall wrote: »

Then why do you think that you could satisfy the requirement?

We dont think that we could satisfy the requirement, we would like to buy the property, semi retire and live on hubbys pension plus any income we could gain from the land and ponds.

Freecall

Rose_Beth wrote: »

We dont think that we could satisfy the requirement

I guess that answers your own question then.

Rose_Beth

What I mean is that at the moment we wouldn't satisfy the requirement, but we would like to try!!!:mad:
We would like to be able to use the land and ponds to earn a small income and then we would hopefully comply with the ag tie.
Back to my original question - Would we need to earn MORE than hubbys pension from the land or do pensions not count as an income?

Thank you Davesnave, I am going to contact my solicitor and send her the ag tie documents we have from the agent.:beer:

agrinnall

Rose_Beth wrote: »

We would like to be able to use the land and ponds to earn a small income and then we would hopefully comply with the ag tie.
Back to my original question - Would we need to earn MORE than hubbys pension from the land or do pensions not count as an income?

I think Dave's answer in post #3 addresses this: it's the time you spend on agricultural activities that's more important than the income. I would think that if you're spending more than half the hours of a normal working week (say 20) on it then it should allow you to meet the restriction. But getting your solicitor to give you a definitive answer sounds like a good plan.

Davesnave

Helpful and polite replies only please!

You're likely to receive all kinds of replies on this forum, which, correctly, is open to all. As on any forum, one takes from it whatever seems most pertinent and useful, remembering that learning isn't always a happy experience.

As this is quite a legally-focused board, some people are likely to be uncomfortable when I say that the rules surrounding ag-tied property are frequently broken, or at least not applied as first intended. As I've explained, this is because the world has changed since they were conceived; a fact reflected in the removal of ties by some authorities.

Other local authorities, including mine, are generally unwilling to grant removal of these ties, but at the same time they do little or nothing to police them. Non-compliance is so commonplace, they simply cannot afford to challenge all the instances they might find...if they ever looked!

So, it's a postcode lottery. As that's the real world situation, I'd advise those interested in such property to find out how the rules are being applied in their locality and act accordingly.

Davesnave

Freecall wrote: »

It is also unlikely that the activities you specify qualify as agriculture within the meaning of the T&CPAs.

Your best bet is to contact the office of your Local Planning Authority for guidance as it will be them who control who is suitably qualified for occupation of the dwelling.

Can you explain why nursery horticulture and the other smallholding activities mentioned would not qualify as agriculture if engaged-in for an appropriate amount of time per week?

For the life of me, I cannot see why not.

I wouldn't visit the local authority before meeting with a suitably experienced, rurally-based solicitor, but that's something the OP will have to decide for herself.

leveller2911

Davesnave wrote: »

Can you explain why nursery horticulture and the other smallholding activities mentioned would not qualify as agriculture if engaged-in for an appropriate amount of time per week?

The problem many of us in the counry have Dave is the number of people who buy these properties , buy a few pigs ,put up a polytunnel and play farmers for a year or two without having any interest in the land but want their nice little part of the country without actually wanting to farm. The polytunnel is left to rot ,the pigs are sold but they still live in their nice little country pad , the cost of which was lower than the openmarket when someone who is genuinely interested in working the land cannot afford to buy unless its tied with a reduced value.

I agree that times have changed but there are people out there who genuinely would like to farm a smallholding and possibly rent more land who can't find theses properties due to either being owned by town/city people who have no interest in farming, forestry or those who do meet the criteria but who's only intention is to get the tie lifted and make money on the rise in value..

One of the major problems is that the owners were allowed to sell off some of the land making the whole smallholding financially unviable in many instances, showing the land cannot sustain a small business the gets lifted and house value increased by 20% or more. Happy days for the owners, buy a house cheap and make a packet.

The OP is clearly someone who has no interest in working the land.

Davesnave

leveller2911 wrote: »

I agree that times have changed but there are people out there who genuinely would like to farm a smallholding and possibly rent more land who can't find theses properties due to either being owned by town people who have no interest of those who do meet the criteria but who's only intention is to get the tie lifted and make money on the rise in value..

The OP is clearly someone who has no interest in working the land.

'Can't find them?'

As I've indicated, there are likely to be many local variations, but in my county they're pretty easy to find, mainly because they stay on the market for much longer than average. A year is quite normal.

I know it's similar in Wales, except 'normal' there can be two or three years.

Another reason they stick around is because many are of non traditional construction, or if not, there's been little investment and they're rather tired.

Seriously, outside the affluent areas, like the South Hams or parts of Hampshire & Dorset, I don't think people buy with the idea of making money. Just bringing mine up to good modern standards will cost me most of my savings, but there's a very clear spend beyond which I shouldn't go, if I want to see my money back when I'm old. Why? Because I'd be head to head with cute period property....and I'd lose!

There are a few gin palaces I know of which have 5 or 6 bedrooms but no land, and were, allegedly, constructed for 'farm workers.' Those clearly make a mockery of what was intended, but the only people I blame for those are the planners.

As for the OP and her husband, I'm not going to make a judgement about their intentions or abilities. I can only tell them what I know, including the fact that looking after 5 acres can be very hard work, the novelty of which will soon pall if they have no interest.

As there's a risk involved, my own feeling is that most of those with little understanding of land will, rightly, decide to give these properties a miss.

I'm not against ties. but I feel they should be administered fairly on a national basis if they are to mean anything at all.

PS. If you can tell me how I can 'make a packet' with this place, I'd be grateful to know. I'm not at all averse to that idea!

Rose_Beth

We do intend to work hard on the land. We have both worked hard all our lives and intend to continue! (We wouldn't know what to do with ourselves otherwise)
We aim to integrate with local small businesses and if possible set up a small village shop selling local produce - to try and help others.
We're not in it for the big house and land (the house needs major work) we are early 50's and want to work hard for however long we can.
I'm awaiting a response from a solicitor so will let you all know what his response is.

mart6

Hi Rose wish you the best of luck
I am a similar age and took the step myself, different circumstances.
Like you say keeps you busy gives you new goals and a freash outlook.
Keep us informed i think you will be ok myself.
A few people on here seem to think everyone has a angle for doing something.
Soppose thats human nature.

Ps search garden law forum , site has had a few problems recently but there are some very helpful guys on there.
Offered to help sort my problem big time