Change of name on deeds- Help from Land Registry rep please

zoot69

>Maisie Moo. Hello.
I started a thread similar to this on 27th August in the Deaths, Funerals and Probate section of the Marriage ,Relationships and families part of these forums ("Assent & then separate Transfer or just a direct Assent needed?")

However, as yet I haven't got any advice from the very helpful Land Registry rep on here.

Can I ask if you have had any new advice since your last posting on your situation?

Our situation is a little simpler in that the property in question is already registered although in one sense it is a little more complex in that there are 2 beneficiaries of the Will and largely for CGT mitigation reasons beneficiary A and spouse want to buy out beneficiary B. The property is unlikely to be principal residence and 2 lots of CGT allowance are better than one.

Initially I had read an answer to a similar question on another website which suggested that an initial Assent to all beneficiaries and then a separate transfer to buy out the other(s) would be a more transparent method..and I just wanted to get some comment from the learned folk on here.

Land_Registry

zoot69 wrote: »

>Maisie Moo. Hello.
I started a thread similar to this on 27th August in the Deaths, Funerals and Probate section of the Marriage ,Relationships and families part of these forums ("Assent & then separate Transfer or just a direct Assent needed?")

However, as yet I haven't got any advice from the very helpful Land Registry rep on here.

Can I ask if you have had any new advice since your last posting on your situation?

Our situation is a little simpler in that the property in question is already registered although in one sense it is a little more complex in that there are 2 beneficiaries of the Will and largely for CGT mitigation reasons beneficiary A and spouse want to buy out beneficiary B. The property is unlikely to be principal residence and 2 lots of CGT allowance are better than one.

Initially I had read an answer to a similar question on another website which suggested that an initial Assent to all beneficiaries and then a separate transfer to buy out the other(s) would be a more transparent method..and I just wanted to get some comment from the learned folk on here.

zoot69 - apologies if we missed your own thread on this. We normally search for 'Land Registry' so where that reveals a result we can pick up the thread and post a reply if we consider one is warranted - we won't always reply if someone else has covered or if the thread relates to things outside of our remit e.g. IHT or CGT but often we will.

From purely a registration perspective it is not necessary to Assent the title to the beneficiaries and then Transfer by them to buy someone out - that is not to say that it does happen but in my experience it is rare.

From a registration perspective the beneficial ownership/estate, namely who has left what to whom, is separate from the legal ownership/property so we are simply dealing with the transfer from the deceased to a new legal owner.

The key from the legal title is that it is the executor(s) as named in the probate who can deal with the title. We would not have sight of the will for example so if we received an Assent or a Transfer from the executor(s) and it was completed correctly we would register it.

The 'transparency' you refer to in the circumstances you mention I suspect would come from not only the executor(s) actions, the assent/transfer as appropriate, the will and any agreement made between the beneficiaries.

zoot69

Many thanks LR rep. I understand the position of the LR in this re tax advice etc...I think!

As far as I can see then an AS1 (along with form AP1) could be used by the sole executor, who is also 1 of the 2 beneficiaries, to register the title of the property in her name only (as transferee) in Section 6.
She would then be responsible in her role as executor for "paying-out" the other beneficiary (her only sibling) as per the terms of the Will.

Looking at the sections of the AS1 form though the siblings name would not appear on this form?

2nd point ..If she (as executor & joint beneficiary) wanted her spouse to be a joint tenant (co-owner if you like) could his name be added to section 6 as a second transferee? ...or is AS1 just to transfer title to beneficiaries (her husband is not one)..

see " 1.1 When to use form AS1. You should use form AS1 (PDF, 50KB) to assent, i.e. transfer, the whole of one or more registered titles to the beneficiary or beneficiaries (from the HMRC website - I'm new here & cannot post links).

So I now understand ( I think!?) that AS1 (along with AP1) could be used to transfer legal title of the property to the executor (who is also a beneficiary).

However, if the sibling who has sold his half share is asked by the tax authorities abroad where a large sum of money came from what documentary evidence can he then rely to back his claim that it's from the sale of his inheritance (i.e. half share of a property in UK)?

What LR procedures/form(s) would the LR rep feel is likely to be the best in terms of (a) showing clearly that the sibling who is a non-executor beneficiary has transferred his half share of the property.

IF the executor/beneficiary wants her spouse on the title deed as well as herself what is the way forward re the selection from the available choice of LR forms..preferably given the aforementioned transparency aspect of clearly showing the non-executor/beneficiary as a transferor.

Many thanks for reading

Land_Registry

The sibling's name would not appear on the forms as the executor is assenting to just herself - we would not be aware of the details of the will and/or any other beneficiaries as we are relying on the probate only. As probate gives the executor the power to deal with the legal estate (the property) that is all we have to concern ourselves with.

An AS1 is for the executor to transfer the title to the beneficiaries
If the executor is transferring to someone else then they would use a TR1
However as mentioned we are not aware of who the beneficiaries are so if we received an AS1 in favour of Mr & Mrs Executor we would not query this.

We would not know what paperwork the sibling could rely on to show how they sold their share - whether the beneficiaries formalise that arrangement or not is not something we would be aware of. There are no Land Registry forms for making this clear as you suggest as we do not deal with the beneficial estate being referred to.

The non executor/beneficiary would not be a transferor if they are not a registered owner or executor. The only way you would be able to include them as a transferor would be to register both beneficiaries as joint owners and then they both transfer the title to Mr & Mrs Executor, which is what you were considering originally.

Essentially you need to consider and research what 'transparency' (if any) is needed to satisfy the tax authorities - that is not a matter for the legal title or Land Registry I'm afraid.

My reason for posting was to explain that from a registration perspective there is no need to register the beneficiaries first and then transfer the ownership again.

zoot69

>LR rep - many thanks for the prompt reply..just a couple of other queries if I may?.

- presumably you don't need the SDLT5 Certificate until the TR1 is done as the AS1 part has no monetary consideration involved as such? (I ordered a SDLT1 form on 23 Sept...it's taking a long time to arrive!).
If that's the case we could bash on with the AS1/APT1 part at least?

secondly - I guess both beneficiaries (including the one who is sole executor named on the Grant) need to complete an ID1 with the AS1/APT1?

Land_Registry

zoot69 - there is rarely any 'consideration' attached to an Assent and as such an SDLT certificate is not required.

If the executor is assenting to themselves and another as the beneficiaries then we only need ID evidence for the non-executor

This is explained in the online guidance so do please read it carefully and work your way through the forms and notes to help with their completion

zoot69

indeed..many thanks

George_Bray

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

zoot69
If the executor is assenting to themselves and another as the beneficiaries then we only need ID evidence for the non-executor

So you need ID evidence for a non-executor beneficiary. Do you also need ID evidence for a non-beneficiary executor, as named on the probate certificate?

But you don't need ID evidence for an executor who is also a beneficiary, even if the transfer application is sent in by post, rather than presented in person?

Land_Registry

Hello George


1) No , because we ve seen the (certified copy) Probate and as long as the names match we don't need anything further


2) Correct , please see (1) as long as the applicant posting(see panel 7 of AP1) is also the executor. If they are not the same person, then there is the ID procedure that applicant.