Joint Bank Accounts and Death

MickeyBeerLover

About a year ago my Mother asked my sister to help manage her bank accounts and they became joint holders. Unfortunately my Mum passed away this week, my sister has informed the bank and arranged for the accounts to be transferred to my Dad. Two accounts have been transferred but a savings account with £18,000 has been closed and the money moved to my sisters account. My Dads bank phoned my sister but she wouldn't discuss it with them or indeed anyone. Both Mum and Dad have Wills which state all to go to the surviving partner. Is there anything we can do to help my Dad get the money back.

Savvy_Sue

Welcome, and sorry for your loss.

However, the bank has acted technically correctly with the savings account: the money was in joint accounts with your sister so on your mother's death the money passed to the survivor.

I don't understand why the same didn't happen with all the accounts.

Who is executor of the will?

MickeyBeerLover

Thank you for your reply.
When my Mum died my sister emailed the details of all 3 bank accounts and asked me to supply the death certs so that she could action the transfers, but she only did the first 2 before moving the money from the 3rd one to her self. There is a "rumour" that she has fallen out with our Dad over something or other but for the life of him he cannot remember what may have caused it.
Both my sister and I are joint executors of the will. But she is not returning my calls at the moment and as she lives over 150 miles away I can't just pop over.

TonyMMM

The will is irrelevant to any money held in a joint account - it automatically transfers to the other account holder and isn't part of your mother's estate.

Setting up joint accounts like this with elderly parents is rarely a good idea - it so often leads to this sort of situation. What should have happened is a power of attorney set up so that you/your sister could manage your mothers account without a joint account being necessary.

If all three accounts were joint, you may have been lucky she has transferred two of them - as you are joint executors she is going to have to talk to you at some point, so that will have to be your opportunity to try and settle it.

getmore4less

It can be the case even with a joint account that the beneficial interest lies with one person and survivorship rules do not apply.

Having evidence this was a joint account for convenience will be needed if you want to take this further and depending on the sis could get costly if it went legal.

There are numerous examples if you have a good search around

http://www.gordonsllp.com/2012/08/survivorship-of-joint-bank-accounts/

http://www.boodlehatfield.com/the-firm/articles/joint-accounts-whose-money-is-it.aspx

http://www.hughjames.com/news/firm-news/2012/06/joint_ownershipsurvivorship/#.VdoJNtHbJ0u

http://www.clarionsolicitors.com/blog/what-happens-to-jointly-owned-assets-on

...

G6JNS

MickeyBeerLover wrote: »

About a year ago my Mother asked my sister to help manage her bank accounts and they became joint holders. Unfortunately my Mum passed away this week, my sister has informed the bank and arranged for the accounts to be transferred to my Dad. Two accounts have been transferred but a savings account with £18,000 has been closed and the money moved to my sisters account. My Dads bank phoned my sister but she wouldn't discuss it with them or indeed anyone. Both Mum and Dad have Wills which state all to go to the surviving partner. Is there anything we can do to help my Dad get the money back.

It is not as straightforward as some have suggested. Searching for case on the net can be very misleading. Each case has to be decided on the facts that may not be easy to establish. If you can't prove that the beneficial ownership was your father's then there is no case. Do you have any documentation to provide proof?

TonyMMM

getmore4less wrote: »

It can be the case even with a joint account that the beneficial interest lies with one person and survivorship rules do not apply.

True .. but difficult to prove and something the OP needs to take advice on

getmore4less

No one has said it would be easy

G6JNS wrote: »

It is not as straightforward as some have suggested. Searching for case on the net can be very misleading. Each case has to be decided on the facts that may not be easy to establish. If you can't prove that the beneficial ownership was your[STRIKE] father's [/STRIKE]mothers then there is no case. Do you have any documentation to provide proof?

BobQ

If your father owns a house or other significant assets, he could deal with your sister's "treachery" by excluding her from his Will?

securityguy

"About a year ago my Mother asked my sister to help manage her bank accounts and they became joint holders. "

Why don't people who need powers of attorney get powers of attorney, rather than messing about with dangerous stunts like this? There was no shortage of money to pay the cost of the PoA, as witness the eighteen grand that is now at issue.

If you have a joint account, the presumption is that the beneficial interest is joint as well. Which is usually not the case when it's about elderly parents. The sister's entitled to the money, absent either her good nature or a complex, difficult and uncertain court case.

Moral: if you need a PoA, get a PoA.

Mojisola

securityguy wrote: »

Why don't people who need powers of attorney get powers of attorney, rather than messing about with dangerous stunts like this?

And, if you need something to work instantly while waiting for the POA to come through, go on the parent's account as a signatory - you can manage the account but don't have any ownership over the money.