How do I fund the deceased's estate after death?

BobQ

My Mum had, and her estate will have, a regular income source from a family trust which, if it could be credited to her account,..........

If I understand you correctly, the family trust is not part of the estate and is not established by your mother's Will. If so, the trustees are obliged to follow the rules of the trust. They will need proof of death, and be clear that paying money from the trust to anyone else is within its rules. But I see no reason why they would want to await probate to act. Probate has nothing to do with the trust. It authorises the executor to deal with the estate but nothing you have said suggests it affects the trust. Why do you think the Trust will pay the estate an income?

G6JNS

wwl wrote: »

What is the myth? It is a fact that some financial institutions have a policy of releasing funds without probate when certain criteria are met. In my case Lloyds released £20K a couple of weeks after having sight of ID, Will, and Death cert, and me signing an indemnity form.
Premium Bonds also released £10K - I don't recall what they needed.
(Both of these were without me asking )

Just because a bank in specific circumstances were prepared to do so it not grounds to advise that it is general practice. Financial institutions vary widely in what they will do. That is why caution is wise when giving advice.

Savvy_Sue

BobQ wrote: »

If I understand you correctly, the family trust is not part of the estate and is established by your mother's Will. If so, he trustees are obliged to follow the rules of the trust. They will need proof of death, and be clear that paying money from the trust to anyone else is within its rules. But I see no reason why they would want to await probate to act. Probate has nothing to do with the trust. It authorises the executor to deal with the estate but nothing you have said suggests it affects the trust. Why do you think the Trust will pay the estate an income?

I'm sure you have much more expertise than me, but the bit I've bolded is not what I understood.

In post 1 we had

My Mum had, and her estate will have, a regular income source from a family trust

Which makes me think that rather than this trust having been set up by Mum's will, it was in existence prior to her death - I guessed having been set up by a will from a previous generation. But I have no idea if that means it passes outside the estate because I know next to nothing about family trusts ...

I think this is a situation where the OP should make full use of his solicitor for the complicated bits like this, get them to explain what the terms of the trust say and what discretion (if any) there is.

BobQ

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I'm sure you have much more expertise than me, but the bit I've bolded is not what I understood......

Sue, well spotted I missed out the word "not" in my above post. Thanks for noticing this! I have corrected it now.

So yes, what I was saying is that if the Trust already existed it is not affected by his mother's Will and will be outside of her estate.

The Trust cannot continue paying someone who is now deceased and will have clauses in the Deed establishing the Trust stating what happens when one of the beneficiaries of the Trust dies.It is this that the OP needs to explore I believe.

This needs to be done with the Trustees (if that includes the solicitor helping the OP with his mother's Will fine) but the Trustees could be unconnected with that solicitor.

Elder_son

Good to know, wwl, that you were dealing with Lloyds too.

Elder_son

The Family Trust was set up by her father, my grandfather, in the 1950s. Although it is still described as a trust, I think it is now run more like a company, with shares and dividends. In her will, my mother left everything to my brother and me. Thus her share is an asset within her estate - so this, and the income from it, will pass equally to my brother and me. My mother was the fifth of five daughters and the last to die by a good 15 years. All the other grandchildren inherited in this way, years ago. So this long period since the last valuation for probate is seen by the trustees (or should I say directors?!) as very significant because it affects everyone else's share value - and there are at least 20 others so affected.

getmore4less

The trust probably can be sorted with independant of the estate if the children are the benificiaries on the death of their mother.

Although some trusts will need to be valued at DOD for IHT purposes that distribution of asset/income don't need that estate finalising as they are dealt with under the terms of the trust.

This probably needs urgent investigation, so deal with the trustees ASAP.

That trust/company must be doing annual returns and any decent trustees would have a good idea of the asset base.


Why were the city valuers involved in the valuation?



example indemnity forms for Barclays
http://www.barclays.co.uk/Bereavement/Whattodowhensomeonedies/P1242633406470

Elder_son

Thanks getmore4less. Yes, I am already dealing with the Trustees/Directors and they certainly prepare proper accounts; the slight hold up is because the main man, my uncle, is in hospital. City valuers involved because all the properties are commercial and the trust, and my uncle's own firm, have always worked very closely with them.

getmore4less

Given that the legal authority to act as executor and start doing things is immediate as it come from the will it is quite possible that you can deal with the issues around the trust and if the trustees agree start redistributing income ASAP. if the trust has cash it may be able to issue loans.

There is the seperate issue of the managing of the Brothers affairs presumbably there is a deputy in place if neccessary for a funerable adult.

BobQ

Elder_son wrote: »

The Family Trust was set up by her father, my grandfather, in the 1950s. Although it is still described as a trust, I think it is now run more like a company, with shares and dividends. In her will, my mother left everything to my brother and me. Thus her share is an asset within her estate - so this, and the income from it, will pass equally to my brother and me. My mother was the fifth of five daughters and the last to die by a good 15 years. All the other grandchildren inherited in this way, years ago. So this long period since the last valuation for probate is seen by the trustees (or should I say directors?!) as very significant because it affects everyone else's share value - and there are at least 20 others so affected.

First you said it is a Trust, now you say it is like a company. I think you need to find out what this legal entity is and who is managing it, but from what you say it still seems to be a Trust. A Trust can be "run like a company" with shares but it is still a Trust and a separate legal entity that has rules for what happens when a beneficiary dies. I still cannot see why the re-valuation of an independent Trust would be dependent on the probate of your mother's estate.

I cannot add any more but clearly you need some expert advice.