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Landlord changing his mind on rent increase
gingercordial
Posts: 1,681 Forumite
I am having an issue with the landlord of my rented flat and would appreciate some advice.
We moved into a flat last year under a 12-month tenancy agreement which ends on 19 September 2015 with rent at £1,700/month (London!). We like the flat and would like to stay here for another year - we could probably get better in the area for about the same but it is a nice building with pleasant neighbours and we really didn't want the hassle of moving this year if possible.
In early August we received a letter from the landlord stating renewal would be at £1,800/month ie £100/month more, which seemed excessive both for our budget and for the area.
We immediately e-mailed to say that we would not accept this increase, pointing out that the market doesn't justify it and that we have been good tenants (always paid on time, no problems etc). We offered £1,730/month as a gesture.
Note that the e-mail was to the property services company that we always deal with; however we were lead to believe at the start that the landlord is a family member (the uncle of the chap who showed us the flat) and indeed everything we have has the landlord as Mr XYZ and the property company is XYZ Property Services. In fact the tenancy agreement has the landlord named as XYZ Property Services Ltd but on the s.21 notice (I'll get on to that) as Mr XYZ.
I received the following e-mail back, exact wording:
"We would like to inform you that we spoke to the landlord and he will accept £1,750. Please tell us if you agree."
This was just about acceptable to us when weighed against the costs of moving, so I immediately replied saying:
"Yes we will accept £1,750 per calendar month starting from our payment on 20 September 2015. Please send us a 12 month tenancy agreement to cover this and we will sign it and return it to you."
All fine, we thought, and waited for the agreement to arrive. Today, ten days later, I chased for the tenancy agreement and received the following:
"So sorry but the landlord changed his mind and is now accepting £1,800. He has spoken to other agents that informed him that he can get more income for that flat."
It goes on to say they are arguing our case and they will get back to us.
Apart from the fact that I find the whole "we need to ask the landlord" element disingenuous given I believe that this is the landlord's own company, can they do this? I know tenancy law isn't quite the same as contract law but they made an offer, in writing, which we accepted. We haven't had a proper tenancy agreement to sign yet but I thought they couldn't change their minds!
I still don't want to move but I don't like their attitude. However we really can't get out in one month from now (less as we are still waiting for a final answer). My partner works shifts including nights and weekends and so flat-hunting would be extremely difficult as he has no free time for the rest of the month. We would also have started arranging various other things by now had we not thought this was sorted. I would consider trying to move in the next couple of months if really necessary, but it seems hugely unfair to have them spring this on us with not much time to go.
When we signed the original tenancy agreement they also made us sign a s.21(4) notice along with it. It states that possession will be required on "19 September 2015 or other date being the last day of the period of the tenancy two months from the date of service hereof, whichever is the later."
I believe our deposit has been properly protected as I was able to get confirmation from one of the official schemes when I plugged the details in.
Was the s.21 notice "served" back when we signed it at the start of the tenancy? Or is there a two-month clock that has yet to start ticking?
If we just stay put and pay rent on 20 September, would they then need to take us to court? If so will that buy us more time?
If that happens and we use the time to look for a new place, will any court action have an impact on our credit records? We would like to buy in a couple of years (no deposit to do so right now). Of course we would not let it go as far as baliffs/full eviction.
Presumably staying here would mean they won't give us a glowing reference to a new landlord but would my chain of e-mails showing them going back on their offer help us out there as being "unreasonable"?
Or can we hold them to issuing a new 12 month agreement at £1,750 as agreed ten days ago?
This is so stressful.
Thank you for any advice.
We moved into a flat last year under a 12-month tenancy agreement which ends on 19 September 2015 with rent at £1,700/month (London!). We like the flat and would like to stay here for another year - we could probably get better in the area for about the same but it is a nice building with pleasant neighbours and we really didn't want the hassle of moving this year if possible.
In early August we received a letter from the landlord stating renewal would be at £1,800/month ie £100/month more, which seemed excessive both for our budget and for the area.
We immediately e-mailed to say that we would not accept this increase, pointing out that the market doesn't justify it and that we have been good tenants (always paid on time, no problems etc). We offered £1,730/month as a gesture.
Note that the e-mail was to the property services company that we always deal with; however we were lead to believe at the start that the landlord is a family member (the uncle of the chap who showed us the flat) and indeed everything we have has the landlord as Mr XYZ and the property company is XYZ Property Services. In fact the tenancy agreement has the landlord named as XYZ Property Services Ltd but on the s.21 notice (I'll get on to that) as Mr XYZ.
I received the following e-mail back, exact wording:
"We would like to inform you that we spoke to the landlord and he will accept £1,750. Please tell us if you agree."
This was just about acceptable to us when weighed against the costs of moving, so I immediately replied saying:
"Yes we will accept £1,750 per calendar month starting from our payment on 20 September 2015. Please send us a 12 month tenancy agreement to cover this and we will sign it and return it to you."
All fine, we thought, and waited for the agreement to arrive. Today, ten days later, I chased for the tenancy agreement and received the following:
"So sorry but the landlord changed his mind and is now accepting £1,800. He has spoken to other agents that informed him that he can get more income for that flat."
It goes on to say they are arguing our case and they will get back to us.
Apart from the fact that I find the whole "we need to ask the landlord" element disingenuous given I believe that this is the landlord's own company, can they do this? I know tenancy law isn't quite the same as contract law but they made an offer, in writing, which we accepted. We haven't had a proper tenancy agreement to sign yet but I thought they couldn't change their minds!
I still don't want to move but I don't like their attitude. However we really can't get out in one month from now (less as we are still waiting for a final answer). My partner works shifts including nights and weekends and so flat-hunting would be extremely difficult as he has no free time for the rest of the month. We would also have started arranging various other things by now had we not thought this was sorted. I would consider trying to move in the next couple of months if really necessary, but it seems hugely unfair to have them spring this on us with not much time to go.
When we signed the original tenancy agreement they also made us sign a s.21(4) notice along with it. It states that possession will be required on "19 September 2015 or other date being the last day of the period of the tenancy two months from the date of service hereof, whichever is the later."
I believe our deposit has been properly protected as I was able to get confirmation from one of the official schemes when I plugged the details in.
Was the s.21 notice "served" back when we signed it at the start of the tenancy? Or is there a two-month clock that has yet to start ticking?
If we just stay put and pay rent on 20 September, would they then need to take us to court? If so will that buy us more time?
If that happens and we use the time to look for a new place, will any court action have an impact on our credit records? We would like to buy in a couple of years (no deposit to do so right now). Of course we would not let it go as far as baliffs/full eviction.
Presumably staying here would mean they won't give us a glowing reference to a new landlord but would my chain of e-mails showing them going back on their offer help us out there as being "unreasonable"?
Or can we hold them to issuing a new 12 month agreement at £1,750 as agreed ten days ago?
This is so stressful.
Thank you for any advice.
0
Comments
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Does your tenancy agreement have anything about rent increases in it?Well life is harsh, hug me don't reject me.0
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Read:gingercordial wrote: »We moved into a flat last year under a 12-month tenancy agreement which ends on 19 September 2015 with rent at £1,700/month ....
In early August we received a letter from the landlord stating renewal would be at £1,800/month ie £100/month more, ...
We immediately e-mailed to say that we would not accept this increase,
We offered £1,730/month as a gesture.
everything we have has the landlord as Mr XYZ and the property company is XYZ Property Services. In fact the tenancy agreement has the landlord named as XYZ Property Services Ltd but on the s.21 notice (I'll get on to that) as Mr XYZ.
"We would like to inform you that we spoke to the landlord and he will accept £1,750. Please tell us if you agree."
I immediately replied saying:
"Yes we will accept £1,750 per calendar month starting from our payment on 20 September 2015. Please send us a 12 month tenancy agreement to cover this and we will sign it and return it to you."
So at this point your acceptance is conditional.
received the following:
"So sorry but the landlord changed his mind and is now accepting £1,800. He has spoken to other agents that informed him that he can get more income for that flat."
So the offer has changed prior to unconditional acceptance.
can they do this? I don't see why not.
I still don't want to move but I don't like their attitude.
Yes, I agree, but.......
However we really can't get out in one month from now
So stay where you are. Don't sign a new contract. Remain on a SPT at the current rent. (see link below). Start property hunting though as the rent increase will (probably) be introduced later.
When we signed the original tenancy agreement they also made us sign a s.21(4) notice along with it. It states that possession will be required on "19 September 2015 or other date being the last day of the period of the tenancy two months from the date of service hereof, whichever is the later."
Which did you receive first? The TA or the S21? If the S21, it is invalid. Sensible LL/agents serve the S21 the following day to avoid disputes about this..........
Was the s.21 notice "served" back when we signed it at the start of the tenancy? Or is there a two-month clock that has yet to start ticking? See above. If the S21 was correctly served, then you've already had your 2 months. If it was invalid, a new S21 will be needed.
If we just stay put and pay rent on 20 September, would they then need to take us to court? If so will that buy us more time?
As above. Yes, court action for possession takes 2 - 6 weeks. and bailiffs a few more....
If that happens and we use the time to look for a new place, will any court action have an impact on our credit records?
No.
Presumably staying here would mean they won't give us a glowing reference to a new landlord but would my chain of e-mails showing them going back on their offer help us out there as being "unreasonable"?
New LL unlikely to be impressed by the chain of emails in my experience.
Or can we hold them to issuing a new 12 month agreement at £1,750 as agreed ten days ago? You can try but it's a (very) long shot.
.
* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
* Rent increases: when & how can rent be increased?0 -
You're only contract is with the landlord. The letting agency just acts on behalf of the landlord and ultimately they need the landlord to green light rent increases, repairs, etc.
Go back and say you've thought about it and you've changed your mind and are willing to pay £1,700 a month.
0 -
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A bit of tooing and froing like this will drag out the discussion till Sept 19th. On Sept 20th you'll create a SPT at a rent of £1700 pmYou're only contract is with the landlord. The letting agency just acts on behalf of the landlord and ultimately they need the landlord to green light rent increases, repairs, etc.
Go back and say you've thought about it and you've changed your mind and are willing to pay £1,700 a month.
Of course then the LL has options of
* do nothing. Let you stay
* action the S21 (which you might challange on grounds it was served before the tenancy began and /or before your deposit was registered)
* serve a Section 13 Notice to increase the rent. But at least you've bought yourself a couple of months at original rent.
Questions:
* what date was the S21 served? 20 Sept 2014?
* what date was your deposit registered? Before or after this date?0 -
Thanks for the detailed reply G_M, I really appreciate it.
I would argue the offer wasn't conditional - they offered renewal at £1,750, we accepted. But this is where my only knowledge of the law is contract, not tenancy (I'm an accountant and we had to study some law but not this, nor do I know all the nuances).
The s.21 notice was part of the same document as the tenancy agreement, all issued to us at the same time. In fact since it was printed double-sided the other side of the s.21 sheet is the final page of our TA with our signatures and the date (17.9.14) on it, so that shouldn't be in doubt. So I guess they were served at the same time... The s.21 wasn't "first" but it wasn't later either. From your very useful links it sounds like that makes it invalid, which is comforting if correct.
So I think that means we should stay on as a statutory periodic tenancy, continue to pay at the old rate and await a new s.21 or a s.13 notice of increased rent. But yes if that happens we will be looking! Such a shame, I do like this flat, but I don't like it £100/month more.
I suspect they're hoping we crack and agree to the extra because they think we'll think we're going to run out of time and be immediately evicted.
Thank you again.0 -
Questions:
* what date was the S21 served? 20 Sept 2014?
* what date was your deposit registered? Before or after this date?
No, served at the same time as our tenancy agreement. The TA was signed by me and my partner on 17 Sept 2014, countersigned by the landlord on 22 Sept 2014.
The s.21 itself has no date other than the reference to possession on 19 Sept 2015, but is the reverse page of the above signature page so unambiguous that it was issued at the same time.
The deposit would have been registered shortly afterwards, I believe.
Edit: I paid the deposit on 12 Sept 2014 but not protected until 25 Sept 2014.0 -
You're only contract is with the landlord. The letting agency just acts on behalf of the landlord and ultimately they need the landlord to green light rent increases, repairs, etc.
Go back and say you've thought about it and you've changed your mind and are willing to pay £1,700 a month.
This is what irritates me - the letting agency and the landlord are the same person but they seem to be pretending that they aren't so they can claim to be intermediaries in a negotiation, as if he isn't sitting right there!0 -
In that case the S21 is definately invalid.gingercordial wrote: »No, served at the same time as our tenancy agreement. The TA was signed by me and my partner on 17 Sept 2014, countersigned by the landlord on 22 Sept 2014.
The deposit would have been registered shortly afterwards, I believe.
.
No need to do anything for now. If and when the LL applies to court for possession based on the S21, you contest it on these grounds. LL will have to return the deposit, serve a new S21 and wait a further 2 months.
Read:
* Deposits: payment, protection and return0 -
In that case the S21 is definately invalid.
No need to do anything for now. If and when the LL applies to court for possession based on the S21, you contest it on these grounds. LL will have to return the deposit, serve a new S21 and wait a further 2 months.
Read:
* Deposits: payment, protection and return
Thank you so much for this and for all the work you've done in creating those links. I feel much less anxious now, knowing we have a little bit more time to look for somewhere else.0
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